The Lawfare Podcast

From December 26, 2023: The Supreme Court during World War II issued some of the most notorious opinions in its history, including the Japanese exclusion case, Korematsu v. United States, and the Nazi saboteur military commission case, Ex parte Quirin. For a fresh take on these and related cases and a broader perspective on the Supreme Court during World War II, Jack Goldsmith sat down with Cliff Sloan, a professor at Georgetown Law Center and a former Special Envoy for Guantanamo Closure, to discuss his new book, which is called “The Court at War: FDR, His Justices, and the World They Made.”  They discussed how the Court's decisions during World War II were informed by the very close personal bonds of affection that most of the justices had with President Roosevelt and by the justices’ intimate attachment to and involvement with the war effort. They also discussed the fascinating internal deliberations in Korematsu, Quirin, and other momentous cases, and the puzzle of why the same court that issued these decisions also, during the same period, issued famous rights-expanding decisions in the areas of reproductive freedom, voting rights, and freedom of speech.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

From June 21, 2023: Carolyn Cole, a Pulitzer-Prize winning staff photographer for the Los Angeles Times, has covered wars and other conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kosovo, Liberia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Haiti, and the U.S.-Mexico border. Over the course of her 30 year career, she has been seriously injured on the job precisely once—when members of the Minnesota State Patrol pushed Cole over a retaining wall and pepper sprayed her so badly that her eyes were swollen shut. Cole was in Minneapolis in the summer of 2020 to cover the protests after the murder of George Floyd. She was wearing a flak jacket marked TV, a helmet, and carried press credentials at the time of her attack. Cole’s story is not unique among the press corps. According to a new report out this week from the Knight First Amendment Institute called “Covering Democracy: Protests, the Police, and the Press,” in 2020, at least 129 journalists were arrested while covering social justice protests and more than 400 suffered physical attacks, 80 percent of them at the hands of law enforcement. As Joel Simon, author of the report and former Executive Director of the Committee to Protect Journalists, writes, “The presence of the media is essential to dissent; it is the oxygen that gives protests life. Media coverage is one of the primary mechanisms by which protesters’ grievances and demands reach the broader public.”Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Joel, as well as Katy Glenn Bass, the Research Director of the Knight First Amendment Institute, to discuss the report, the long legacy of law enforcement attacks on journalists covering protests in America, who counts as “the press” in the eyes of the court, and what can be done to better ensure press freedom.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

For today's episode, Lawfare Senior Editor and General Counsel Scott R. Anderson sat down with three leading legal experts on domestic military deployments: William Banks of Syracuse University College of Law, Laura Dickinson of the George Washington University Law School, and Chris Mirasola of the University of Houston Law Center. They discussed the legality of the Trump administration's decision to deploy U.S. troops on the streets of Los Angeles, where the state of California's legal challenge is likely to head, the Trump administration's broader ambitions to involve the military in immigration enforcement, and what it all may mean for the domestic use of the military elsewhere moving forward.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Today, it’s Episode Seven of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.In the season finale of Escalation, Nastya recounts Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. The western world is shocked, as President Biden and Congress attempt to send weapons to Ukraine to fight back. But fundamentally different perspectives on the fight emerge, leaving Ukraine's fate uncertain and its relationship with the United States in jeopardy.

Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Clay Risen to talk about his book “Red Scare: Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America,” exploring the historical context of McCarthyism and its relevance to contemporary issues. They discuss the dynamics of accusation versus evidence during the Red Scare, the impact of vigilantism, the erosion of civil liberties, and the lessons that can be drawn from this period in American history. Risen highlights lesser-known figures who resisted the Red Scare and examines the political opportunism that characterized the era, drawing parallels to current political challenges.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic, and Contributing Editor Chris Mirasola, to focus on the week’s big domestic news, including:“Drama Majors, Meet Major Drama.” In the glittering city of Los Angeles, the Trump administration has taken the dramatic step of calling up the California National Guard and deploying them alongside active duty Marines to secure federal personnel and facilities, specifically against protestors demonstrating against the Trump administration’s draconian immigration policies. Is this the beginning of a broader threat to the constitutional order, as some of Trump’s critics say it is? And what should we make of President Trump’s suggestion that he may yet invoke the controversial Insurrection Act?“Precision Rescission, What’s Your Mission?” The Trump administration has asked Congress to formally rescind a slice of the federal spending it has been withholding since entering office, specifically relating to foreign assistance and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting—a request the House seems poised to move on this week. How likely is it that Congress will agree to the cut in funds? And what will the implications be for relevant legal challenges and Trump’s broader agenda?“There and Back Again.” After an unexpected journey and epic delays on the part of the government, the Trump administration has finally repatriated Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador—only to charge him with human trafficking and other federal crimes in Tennessee. How serious are the charges against him? And is this likely to be a win or loss for the administration’s broader immigration agenda?In object lessons, Molly shared a ranking of New York mayoral candidates by their bagel orders—and whose order is so bad, it’s a schmear on their very New Yorker-ness. Quinta recommends Ava Kofman’s profile of Curtis Yarvin in the New Yorker as a masterclass in the art of meticulous evisceration. Scott introduced his 4-year-old to his old Tintin books by Hergé—because it’s never too early to get into the drawbacks of colonialism. And Chris fled real DC drama for fake DC drama with The Residence on Netflix.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Christina Knight, Machine Learning Safety and Evals Lead at Scale AI and former senior policy adviser at the U.S. AI Safety Institute (AISI), joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to break down what it means to test and evaluate frontier AI models as well as the status of international efforts to coordinate on those efforts.This recording took place before the administration changed the name of the U.S. AI Safety Institute to the U.S. Center for AI Standards and Innovation. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Today, it’s Episode Six of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.Episode Six picks up the thread in 2019, when the relationship between the United States and Ukraine faces one of its biggest tests during a phone call between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We then take listeners into the halls of Congress to follow the Ukrainian Cultural Forces as they struggle to generate support for the war on the eve of the 2024 presidential election, in part due to the fallout of that infamous phone call. 

Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Daphne Keller, Director of the Program on Platform Regulation at Stanford University's Cyber Policy Center; Dean Jackson, Contributing Editor at Tech Policy Press and fellow at American University's Center for Security, Innovation, and New Technology; and Joan Barata, Senior Legal Fellow at The Future of Free Speech Project at Vanderbilt University and fellow at Stanford’s Program on Platform Regulation, to make European tech regulation interesting. They discuss the European Union’s Disinformation Code of Practice and its transition, on July 1, from voluntary framework co-authored by Big Tech, to legally binding obligation under the Digital Services Act (DSA). This sounds like a niche bureaucratic change—but it's provided a news hook for the Trump Administration and its allies in far-right parties across Europe to allege once again that they are being suppressed by Big Tech, and that this transition portends the end of free speech on the internet.Does it? No. But what do the Code and the DSA actually do? It's worth understanding the nuances of these regulations and how they may impact transparency, accountability, and free expression. The group discusses topics including Senator Marco Rubio’s recent visa ban policy aimed at “foreign censors,” Romania’s annulled election, and whether European regulation risks overreach or fails to go far enough.For more on this topic:Hate Speech: Comparing the US and EU ApproachesThe European Commission's Approach to DSA Systemic Risk is Concerning for Freedom of ExpressionThe Far Right’s War on Content Moderation Comes to Europe Regulation or Repression? How the Right Hijacked the DSA DebateLawful but Awful? Control over Legal Speech by Platforms, Governments, and Internet UsersThe Rise of the Compliant Speech PlatformThree Questions Prompted by Rubio’s Threatened Visa Restrictions on ‘Foreign Nationals Who Censor Americans’Will the DSA Save Democracy? The Test of the Recent Presidential Election in RomaniaTo receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.