The Lawfare Podcast

This week, a Quinta-less Alan and Scott sat down with Lawfare all-stars Natalie Orpett, Eugenia Lostri, and Kevin Frazier to talk about the week’s big national security news, including: “Waiting to Expel.” The New York Times reported this week that the anticipated transfer of almost a dozen detainees from Guantanamo Bay to Oman was halted in the wake of the Oct. 7 massacre. This as Oman is reportedly preparing to expel a number of former detainees already resident there with their families. What do these developments mean for the effort to resettle detainees and ultimately close Guantanamo?“The First Law of Robotics is Don’t Talk About the Law of Robotics.” AI safety is back on the front pages again, after the resignation of much of OpenAI’s “superalignment” team, which had been tasked with preventing the AIs being developed from becoming a threat to humanity. A bipartisan group of senators, meanwhile, has laid out a roadmap to guide legislative efforts. But is it on the right track? And just how much should we be sucking up to our future robot overlords?“20,000 Leaks Under the Sea.” Strategic competition is slowly leading U.S. officials to give more careful consideration to the network of undersea cables on which much of the global telecommunications system relies—and which China and Russia seem increasingly intent on being able to access or disrupt. But what will addressing this threat require? And is the antiquated legal regime governing undersea cables up to the task?To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Former FCC Chair Tom Wheeler joins Lawfare Tarbell Fellow Kevin Frazier and Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein to discuss the latest developments in AI governance. Building off his book, “Techlash: Who Makes the Rules in the Digital Gilded Age?” Wheeler makes the case for a more agile approach to regulating AI and other emerging technology. This approach would likely require the creation of a new agency. Wheeler points out that current agencies lack the culture, structure, and personnel required to move at the speed of new technologies. He also explores the pros and cons of the Bipartisan Senate AI Working Group’s roadmap for AI policy. While Wheeler praises the collaboration that went into the roadmap, he acknowledges that it may lack sufficient focus on the spillover effects of more AI development and deployment. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

On May 14, the Georgian parliament passed a controversial foreign agent bill titled “Transparency of Foreign Influence,” which has led to mass protests across the country. Although President Salome Zourabichvili's vetoed the bill, Georgia Dream, the majority party, overturned the veto on May 28, ensuring the enactment of this legislation.Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey sat down with Senior Fellow at Carnegie Europe Thomas de Waal to discuss what exactly was in the bill, why it was so controversial, how the U.S. and European Union have reacted, and why Georgia Dream decided to pass it now.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

It's Trump's Trials and Tribulations, New York Trial Dispatch, May 28. Roger Parloff sat down with Benjamin Wittes, Anna Bower, Tyler McBrien, and Katerine Pompilio to discuss what happened in the courtroom today.The podcast was edited by Noam Osband of Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is from Alibi Music.

Raised in Mā’ohi Nui (French Polynesia), Dr. Anaïs Maurer is assistant professor of literature at Rutgers University and author of The Ocean on Fire. Her research and writing, including this book, have explored the intersection of the legacy of colonial powers' massive nuclear detonations in Oceania, critical threats from climate change, and the stories the people of Oceania tell about it all.David Priess chatted with Maurer about her experience growing up in Oceania, the scope of the nuclear detonations in the region, how the people of Oceania have addressed radiation effects through stories, why cultural resilience has remained a greater theme than individualism or victimhood, how these narratives inform our current era of climate change, and more.Works mentioned in this episode:The book The Ocean on Fire by Anaïs MaurerThe book Quand le cannibale ricane by Paul TavoThe short story "Eden" in the collection Vai: La Rivière au ciel sans nuages by Ra'i ChazeThe book The Whale Rider by Witi IhimaeraThe visual art French Apocalypse Now by CronosThe Coconut poetry series by Teresa TeaiwaThe book Pensées insolentes et inutiles by Chantal SpitzChatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Between June 6–9, voters across the EU’s member states will go to the polls to select members of the European Parliament. For today’s episode, Brookings Senior Fellow and Lawfare Senior Editor Molly Reynolds chatted with Tara Varma, Visiting Fellow, and Sophie Roehse, Senior Research Assistant, both of the Center for the United States and Europe at Brookings, to discuss these elections, what they mean for European politics, and how they might affect key issues also facing the U.S., including the war in Ukraine, relations with China, and how to handle asylum seekers.For further reading and listening on topics discussed, see:·       Why should Americans care about the European Parliament election?, Tara Varma and Sophie Roehse, May 17, 2024·       Ukraine Index: Tracking developments in the Ukraine war, April 15, 2024·       The Lawfare Podcast: Asylum-Seekers and the EU Migration Pact, April 1, 2024To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

From August 12, 2020: President Trump recently issued executive orders aimed at banning TikTok and WeChat from operating in the United States. To discuss the sanction, Bobby Chesney sat down with Dr. Sheena Chestnut Greitens, an associate professor at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and a faculty affiliate with the Strauss Center for International Security and Law and the Clements Center for National Security at UT; and Dr. Ronald Deibert, a professor of political science and the founder and director of The Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto's Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy. In addition to the executive orders concerning TikTok and WeChat, they also discussed the larger U.S.-China relationship and the role of technology competition in that space.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

From June 17, 2019: It's getting ugly in the Persian Gulf: Iran allegedly attacks two oil tankers. It announces that it's going to violate the JCPOA, the so-called Iran nuclear agreement. There's talk of military strikes. Europe is edgy, and the Secretary of State is on Sunday talk shows being edgier still.Benjamin Wittes sat down with Suzanne Maloney and Scott R. Anderson to talk it all through. They talked about whether the AUMF covers Iran, why Iran is doing this stuff, whether the Trump administration brought this all on itself, and where it's all going from here.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on May 23 in front of a live audience on  YouTube and Zoom.Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes talked to Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff and Legal Fellow and Courts Correspondent Anna Bower about the Wednesday hearing in the Southern District of Florida and Judge Cannon's decision to unseal several court filings. They checked in on Fulton County to see how DA Fani Willis and Judge Scott McAfee fared in their elections on Tuesday before discussing what is left in the New York City Trump trial. And of course, they took audience questions from Lawfare Material Supporters on Zoom.