It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes.Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson begin a four-part series revisiting England’s 1966 World Cup win by focusing on Sir Alf Ramsey’s background and the conservative England setup he inherited, including the FA selection committee and a poor early World Cup record. They argue Ramsey, often caricatured as dour, was socially conservative and xenophobic but tactically radical, demanding control of selection and modernizing England with a system-focused approach influenced by his Ipswich success, zonal marking, and experiments that questioned traditional wingers. They discuss his reserved personality, class and heritage issues, a reported instance of backing a player convicted of gross indecency, and why blaming 1966 for later English insularity is misguided. Ramsey’s early England results are mixed, but a 1964 Brazil trip helps crystallize his shift away from 4-2-4, and by April 1965 the emerging core includes Banks, Moore, Jack Charlton, and Nobby Stiles.00:00 Meet Alf Ramsey01:49 Ipswich Miracle Title03:28 Ending Selection Committees05:20 England World Cup Woes06:50 Dour Yet Radical09:23 Xenophobia And Origins14:14 Was 1966 A Curse17:28 Ramsey Playing Roots20:36 Ipswich Tactical Experiments24:38 Brutalism And Football27:27 Brutalism Meets Football31:21 Ramsey Blueprint Emerges33:02 First Camp Shock Therapy36:43 Early Results and Doubts40:05 Brazil Trip Reality Check40:43 Curfew Crackdown46:16 Tactics Shift and New Spine47:51 Jack Charlton and Stiles Debut53:19 Foundations of 1966

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Tim Vickery to discuss the extraordinary story of Brazil at the World Cup.From the ultra-nationalism and hysteria of 1938, to the trauma of the Maracanazo in 1950, and the glorious Pelé years that forged a nation's identity between 1958 and 1970. Vickery traces every Brazilian World Cup campaign.Drawing on his new book Mundiales, Vickery offers a uniquely South American perspective on how the beautiful game's most celebrated nation has wrestled with myth, race, politics, and tactical evolution across nearly a century of football.With the 2026 World Cup on the horizon and Carlo Ancelotti now at the helm, can Brazil rediscover their identity, or has the ghost of 1970 become an impossible standard?00:00 Introduction — Tim Vickery Joins from Rio06:30 The Myth of Samba Football 13:00 1938, Radio, and Tropical Nationalism19:30 1950, The Maracanazo and a Nation's Trauma27:00 1954, The Battle of Bern and Revenge Football31:30 1958, Meticulous Planning, Pelé, and Redemption37:20 The Post-1970 Identity Crisis41:00 1982, Failure and a Lost Midfield Art47:00 The Domestic Decline of Brazilian Coaching49:30 Qatar 2022, Were Brazil Really That Far Off?52:00 Carlo Ancelotti and the 2026 World Cup

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their six greatest European Cup and Champions League finals of all time.From the 127,000 who stayed to applaud Real Madrid's 7-3 demolition of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960, to Ajax passing Juventus into submission in 1973 and Pep Guardiola's Barcelona spearheaded by Xavi flying to the title at Wembley in 2011. Wilson and Draper trace the tactical revolutions, romantic triumphs, and spectacular collapses that defined European football's greatest competition. With Arsenal facing PSG in this week's Champions League final, will Mikel Arteta join the elite list of managers who have won Europes’s elite competition or will Luis Enrique go back to back with PSG?00:00 Introduction — Champions League Final Week06:30 Real Madrid 7-3 Eintracht Frankfurt (1960)19:20 Ajax 1-0 Juventus (1973)34:50 AC Milan 4-0 Barcelona (1994) 42:15 Celtic 2-1 Inter Milan (1967) 53:40 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United (2011) 58:10 Benfica 5-3 Real Madrid (1962) 01:03:20 Why Not 1999 or 2005? — And Can PSG Become an All-Time Great?

Listen to the Full Episode on the IWWIW Patreon here...In this Patreon special of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak with Jonathan Northcroft about the updated paperback edition of their Gareth Southgate book, retitled Inside England, which adds four new chapters. They discuss Southgate’s cultural reset, including the Royal Marines camp at Lympstone, and trace the deeper roots of England’s revival through reforms such as EPPP and England DNA, alongside figures like Dan Ashworth, Dave Redding, Trevor Brooking and Greg Dyke’s 2022 World Cup target. They cover how improved youth development, psychology and data-led penalty preparation helped transform England into a resilient tournament team, before assessing Euro 2024’s tactical problems and the FA’s decision to appoint Thomas Tuchel for “wow factor” and elite coaching. They end by weighing concerns about recent friendlies, squad management and camp culture heading into the World Cup.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Michael Grant, Scottish football correspondent for The Times and author of Fergie Rises, to tell the story of how a young Alex Ferguson shattered the Old Firm duopoly and transformed Aberdeen into serial winners.This Episode was recorded before the dramatic showdown on the final day of the SPL season between Celtic and Hearts, but was this just the start of the Hearts story? Will they continue threatening to break the Rangers-Celtic stranglehold for years to come? Wilson, Draper and Grant trace the remarkable parallels with Ferguson's Aberdeen revolution. They explore how a brash 36-year-old manager, fresh from a humiliating tribunal after being sacked by St Mirren, walked into a club that had nearly been relegated two years earlier and forged a dynasty. Along the way, they examine the clashes on the pitch, the psychological scars of Fergie's playing days, the infamous post-cup final rant that still hurts his players 40 years on. Michael Grant reveals the man behind the myth... volatile, funny, manipulative, and utterly relentless.00:00 Introduction — Hearts, the Old Firm, and Why Fergie Matters Now06:30 Aberdeen Before Ferguson — Nearly Relegated12:45 The St Mirren Sacking and the Tribunal19:20 The Westhill Willy Biters27:10 Willie Miller and the Power Struggle34:50 Breaking the Old Firm's Psychological Hold42:15 Winning the League — 5-0 at Easter Road48:00 Knocking on Fergie's Door at 3am53:40 The Liverpool Humiliation58:10 Fergie's Fury — The Morning After Anfield01:03:20 Youth Development and Building a Dynasty01:09:00 The Infamous 1983 Cup Final Rant01:14:30 Why the Old Firm Were Vulnerable — and can Hearts Can Do It Again?

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the remarkable story of Bert Trautmann — the former Nazi paratrooper who became Manchester City's beloved goalkeeper and an unlikely symbol of Anglo-German reconciliation. 70 years on from the legendary 1956 FA Cup final, Wilson and Draper trace Trautmann's extraordinary journey: from Hitler Youth member and fighting on the Eastern Front, to prisoner of war in England, to the man who played on with a broken neck at Wembley. They examine his teenage indoctrination, the atrocity he witnessed, that shattered his faith in Nazism and the 25,000 protesters at Maine Road. Along the way, they explore the brutal treatment of goalkeepers in this era and how three successive cup final incidents began to change the game's laws. Finally, they reflect on how a flawed, charismatic man became the perfect bridge between two nations.00:00 Jimmy Ashcroft and the Goalkeeper's Lot06:30 Hitler Youth — Trautmann's Indoctrination12:45 The Eastern Front19:20 Witnessing the SS Massacre25:00 Captured Three Times — Soviets, Americans, and a Cup of Tea27:10 Prisoner of War and the Accidental Goalkeeper34:50 Staying in England 42:15 25,000 Protesters48:00 Winning Over Manchester53:40 The 1956 FA Cup Final — Playing On with a Broken Neck58:10 The Dangerous Life of the Goalkeeper01:03:20 Footballer of the Year and Personal Tragedy01:09:00 Burma, Women's Football, and an OBE01:14:30 The Perfect Symbol of Reconciliation

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the 1995-96 Premier League season. 30 years on from one of the great title races. They trace Manchester United's unlikely triumph, beginning with the summer meltdown that saw Ince, Hughes, and Kanchelskis all depart, the infamous opening-day defeat to Aston Villa, and Alan Hansen's immortal verdict. From Cantona's Paris crisis and Ferguson's diplomatic dinner to Newcastle's flying start and that seemingly insurmountable 12-point lead, Wilson and Draper unpick every twist. They examine Schmeichel's heroics in the pivotal March showdown at St James' Park, the Tino Asprilla effect, the curse of the grey shirts at The Dell, and finally the extraordinary moment Kevin Keegan lost his composure on live television.00:00 Alan Hansen Sets the Scene06:30 The Summer Meltdown — Ince, Hughes, Kanchelskis12:45 Class of '92 and the Aston Villa Opener19:20 Cantona's Paris Crisis and Ferguson's Rescue Mission27:10 Newcastle's Flying Start and the 12-Point Lead34:50 The March Showdown at St James' Park42:15 Tino Asprilla and the Rodney Marsh Debate48:00 Liverpool 4, Newcastle 3 — The Moment It Turned53:40 The Grey Shirts and the Southampton Collapse58:10 The Mind Games Begin01:03:20 Keegan's Meltdown — "I Will Love It"01:09:00 United Win the League and the Double01:14:30 Why This Season Made the Premier League

Welcome back to It Was What It Was the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring this Graham Taylor series to a close with the Oslo qualifier that defined his reign: a chaotic, tactically muddled 2–0 loss to Norway at the peak of their ‘golden age’, captured in painful detail by The Impossible Job. Unpacking Taylor’s mounting stress, tabloid caricature and “no‑win” selection calls—especially the dilemma of persisting with an undercooked Paul Gascoigne—before explaining how the back-three plan collapsed, England’s structure unravelled, and Norway’s alertness (including a quick free kick) punished them. The episode breaks down England’s chaotic structure, Norway’s tactical calm under Egil “Drillo” Olsen, and Taylor’s famous touchline outbursts, before tracing the fallout: “Norse Manure” headlines, concerns the players had stopped responding, and a demoralising US tour. England briefly revive by beating Poland, but lose in Rotterdam and, despite winning 7–1 in San Marino after conceding almost instantly, miss out as the Netherlands win in Poland. They assess Taylor’s broader legacy, his misfortune with timing and player form, and his later rehabilitation at Watford.01:51 Norway’s Golden Generation04:51 Tabloid Mockery Era06:11 Psychology and Pressure08:18 The Gaza Fitness Dilemma18:30 Paranoia and Tactical Switch22:50 System Collapse in Oslo25:57 Quick Free Kick Nightmare29:41 Norway Strike Again30:32 Tabloid Backlash32:07 Tactics And Trust35:18 Bigger Picture Failings42:56 USA Tour Fallout43:49 Last Chance Qualifiers45:36 San Marino Shock48:28 Reassessing the Taylor Legacy