It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins!They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup. We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes. Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue the journey into the modern era of the tournament and discuss the controversial 32-team format in the USA.(Apologies for a few audio issues with Rob's mic this week!)00:00 Introduction and Financial Woes00:21 The Club World Cup: Origins and Early Years01:31 Early International Competitions03:59 The Quest for a World Champion08:07 The First Recognized World Club Tournament13:41 The Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy16:50 The Copa Rio: A New Era23:16 Controversial Withdrawal and Unsatisfactory Victory23:37 Rebranding and Decline of the Tournament24:02 Violence and Domestic Dominance25:01 The Little World Cup in Venezuela26:46 The International Soccer League in the US28:47 European and South American Club Competitions30:45 The Birth of the Intercontinental Cup35:34 Violence and Controversy in the Intercontinental Cup41:36 Decline of the Intercontinental Cup44:06 The Toyota Cup Era45:23 The Expanded Club World Cup46:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show.Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tactical transformations it spurred, like the introduction of the WM formation and the rise of the centre half role, to its broader effects on the game's entertainment value and popularity, the discussion covers it all.Join us as we explore one of the most pivotal adjustments in football history and its lasting legacy.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:08 The 1925 Offside Rule Change02:21 Historical Context of Offside Rule02:55 Early 20th Century Offside Tactics05:01 Impact of the 1925 Rule Change12:27 Adaptations and Innovations19:04 Immediate Effects in England26:03 Notable Goal Scoring Feats27:42 Astonishing Cup Run and Relegation Drama29:05 Impact of the 1925 Offside Law Change32:03 Defensive Strategies and Adaptations34:15 Tactical Innovations and the WM Formation42:04 Evolution of Player Roles and Transfer Market53:32 Global Differences and Final Thoughts

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia’s remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations.Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he’s ever experienced. Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Zambia rose from the ashes to claim continental glory. This episode retraces their journey - from the tragedy off the coast of Gabon in 1993, the rebuilding efforts led by legendary captain Kalusha Bwalya, right through to their unforgettable victory on penalties in the very same country that witnessed their darkest hour.00:00 The Final Match: A Battle Beyond the Pitch00:15 Introduction to an Inspiring and Tragic Football Story00:36 Zambia's Uplifting Victory After Tragedy02:26 The 1993 Plane Crash: A National Tragedy04:37 Zambia's Football Rise in the Late 80s08:15 The Aftermath of the Crash and the Struggle for Resources18:42 Rebuilding the Team: The Role of Kaia and New Coaches24:01 The 2012 African Cup of Nations Journey25:06 The Quarterfinals and Beyond27:01 Gabon vs. Mali: A Penalty Heartbreak27:30 Unexpected Journey to Bata31:12 Ghana's Complacency and Zambia's Rise38:38 The Emotional Beach Ceremony40:27 The Dramatic Final Against Ivory Coast51:10 Zambia's Historic Victory52:16 Reflecting on the Significance

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain’s first-ever Champions League title.From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique’s managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshakable determination.In 2019, Enrique stepped away from football during his time as Spain’s national team coach after the tragic death of his 9-year-old daughter, Xana, who lost her battle with bone cancer. The podcast reflects on how he faced unimaginable grief and later returned to the sidelines with a renewed sense of focus, channeling his pain into purpose.We also explore the lesser-known side of Enrique — the ultramarathon runner, the iron-willed competitor, and the fitness fanatic who demanded relentless physical commitment from his players. His obsession with endurance has shaped not only the way his teams play but also the culture he instills: high pressing, relentless movement, and mental toughness.Where does Luis Enrique’s legacy stand now? From Gijón to Camp Nou to Paris, and from personal tragedy to professional triumph — this is a story of more than just football. It’s about the making of a modern great.0:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection00:32 Luis Enrique's Early Life and Background04:15 Football Beginnings and Early Career07:03 Transition to Real Madrid and Barcelona16:06 International Career and Notable Incidents22:52 Post-Playing Career and Coaching Beginnings29:07 Luis Enrique's Coaching Journey31:01 Barcelona's Missed Opportunity with Luis Enrique32:36 Luis Enrique's Success at Celta Vigo32:49 Barcelona's Second Chance with Luis Enrique35:41 The Messi Conundrum37:54 Luis Enrique's Triumphs and Challenges at Barcelona44:53 The Tragic Loss of Luis Enrique's Daughter47:15 Return to the Spanish National Team52:26 Luis Enrique's Tenure at PSG01:00:36 The Emotional Impact of Luis Enrique's Journey01:02:41 Conclusion and Reflections

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti.As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil.They examine Ancelotti’s coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the enduring influence of Hungarian football. The conversation spans decades and continents—from the intellectual cafés of Budapest to the shifting tactical landscape of South America. Along the way, they reflect on the evolution of Brazilian coaching and the global reach of Hungarian tactical innovation.Join them for a compelling look at the past, present, and future of football strategy, and discover how Ancelotti’s arrival in Brazil could be a return to their roots.00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes00:37 Historic Day for Brazil: Foreign Manager Appointed01:15 Carlo Ancelotti's Coaching Philosophy01:55 Brazil's Foreign Coaching History04:56 The Dominance of Argentinian Coaches in South America06:04 Brazilian Football's Tactical Evolution10:30 Hungarian Influence on Brazilian Football20:56 Brazil's World Cup Preparations and Challenges26:13 Brazil's Struggles Against European Teams27:49 Modern Era: Brazil's Coaching Crisis29:11 Analysing the Decline of Brazilian Football30:01 The Influence of European Coaching30:22 The Role of Brazilian Midfielders30:37 Recent Brazilian Coaches and Their Struggles31:38 The Turning Point: Italy 198232:10 Introduction to Carlo Ancelotti's Appointment32:49 Carlo Ancelotti's Mentorship and Legacy35:27 The Hungarian Influence on Modern Football38:33 The Swedish Connection and Coaching Philosophy40:22 The Rise of IFK Norrköping48:28 The Formation of the Gre-No-Li Trio51:27 Carlo Ancelotti's Impact on Brazilian Football55:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan.Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory. For more build-up to the Champions League Final - listen to our episode on Inter Milan - The Birth of the Catenaccio - released earlier this week.00:00 Introduction to the Football History Podcast01:08 PSG's Humble Beginnings02:59 The Formation of PSG04:30 Challenges and Controversies06:53 The Role of Media and Public Support08:48 The Birth of Paris Saint-Germain11:10 The Struggle for Identity14:38 The Rise of PSG20:12 Fashion and Football: The Daniel Hechter Era25:27 Financial Misconduct in French Football26:15 PSG's Rise in the 1980s27:20 Early European Struggles28:41 Financial Turmoil and Media Takeover30:32 Golden Years and European Semi-Final Curse33:31 Qatari Takeover and Controversies41:45 Branding and Big Signings46:31 Modern Challenges and Future Prospects50:12 Conclusion and Champions League final thoughts

Welcome to this Champions League special episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. In this episode, they dive deep into the rich tactical history of Inter Milan, tracing the origins and impact of the famous Catenaccio system introduced by legendary coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. They explore Herrera's significant influence on modern football management, his controversial methods, and the eventual decline of his tactical system. Additionally, the hosts draw parallels between Herrera's era and Inter Milan's current approach under Simone Inzaghi, highlighting how historical tactics still resonate today as they face PSG inJoin us at the end of the week as we turn our attention to PSG's history, as they look to win the Champions League for the first time.00:00 Introduction 00:19 Champions League Special: Setting the Scene00:34 Helena Herrera: The Tactical Genius01:56 The Birth of Catenaccio02:56 Karl Rappan and the Swiss Influence08:43 Catenaccio's Evolution in Italy13:31 The Rise of Inter Milan19:02 Herrera's Early Career and Philosophy27:31 Herrera's Impact at Barcelona29:54 Transition to Inter Milan30:07 Inter's Turbulent Coaching History30:39 Helenio Herrera's Arrival and Impact31:17 Herrera's Strict Regimen and Control34:55 Tactical Innovations and Success42:06 Controversies and Criticisms49:31 The Decline of Herrera's Inter56:50 Legacy and Modern Comparisons01:02:19 Conclusion and Upcoming Content

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives.Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel. In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing experiences and poignant reflections on the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, when 39 football fans tragically lost their lives during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus. The discussion covers the chaotic events leading up to the disaster, the atmosphere in Brussels, and the aftermath, both immediate and long-term, for football and fan culture. Don't miss this in-depth exploration of one of the darkest days in football history.00:00 Introducing the Podcast and Special Guest Tony Evans02:15 Liverpool in 1985: A City and Club in Turmoil02:30 The Violent Year: Football and Social Unrest05:09 The Day of the Heysel Disaster: Personal Accounts07:46 Chaos in Brussels: The Build-Up to Tragedy16:57 The Collapse: Mismanagement and Miscommunication27:45 The Aftermath: Reactions and Reflections30:35 The Aftermath of the Tragedy31:43 Personal Recollections and Impact32:26 Documentary Insights and Victim Stories34:56 Chaos and Confusion at the Stadium38:25 The Decision to Continue the Game49:08 Reflections on Fan Behaviour and Consequences51:27 The Broader Context and Political Reactions53:48 Long-term Changes in Football Culture58:38 Concluding Thoughts on the Tragedy

Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever.Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago. Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture.Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985.00:00 Introduction to the Podcast01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath47:16 Investigations and Controversies50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode