It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their six greatest European Cup and Champions League finals of all time.From the 127,000 who stayed to applaud Real Madrid's 7-3 demolition of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960, to Ajax passing Juventus into submission in 1973 and Pep Guardiola's Barcelona spearheaded by Xavi flying to the title at Wembley in 2011. Wilson and Draper trace the tactical revolutions, romantic triumphs, and spectacular collapses that defined European football's greatest competition. With Arsenal facing PSG in this week's Champions League final, will Mikel Arteta join the elite list of managers who have won Europes’s elite competition or will Luis Enrique go back to back with PSG?00:00 Introduction — Champions League Final Week06:30 Real Madrid 7-3 Eintracht Frankfurt (1960)19:20 Ajax 1-0 Juventus (1973)34:50 AC Milan 4-0 Barcelona (1994) 42:15 Celtic 2-1 Inter Milan (1967) 53:40 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United (2011) 58:10 Benfica 5-3 Real Madrid (1962) 01:03:20 Why Not 1999 or 2005? — And Can PSG Become an All-Time Great?

Listen to the Full Episode on the IWWIW Patreon here...In this Patreon special of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak with Jonathan Northcroft about the updated paperback edition of their Gareth Southgate book, retitled Inside England, which adds four new chapters. They discuss Southgate’s cultural reset, including the Royal Marines camp at Lympstone, and trace the deeper roots of England’s revival through reforms such as EPPP and England DNA, alongside figures like Dan Ashworth, Dave Redding, Trevor Brooking and Greg Dyke’s 2022 World Cup target. They cover how improved youth development, psychology and data-led penalty preparation helped transform England into a resilient tournament team, before assessing Euro 2024’s tactical problems and the FA’s decision to appoint Thomas Tuchel for “wow factor” and elite coaching. They end by weighing concerns about recent friendlies, squad management and camp culture heading into the World Cup.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Michael Grant, Scottish football correspondent for The Times and author of Fergie Rises, to tell the story of how a young Alex Ferguson shattered the Old Firm duopoly and transformed Aberdeen into serial winners.This Episode was recorded before the dramatic showdown on the final day of the SPL season between Celtic and Hearts, but was this just the start of the Hearts story? Will they continue threatening to break the Rangers-Celtic stranglehold for years to come? Wilson, Draper and Grant trace the remarkable parallels with Ferguson's Aberdeen revolution. They explore how a brash 36-year-old manager, fresh from a humiliating tribunal after being sacked by St Mirren, walked into a club that had nearly been relegated two years earlier and forged a dynasty. Along the way, they examine the clashes on the pitch, the psychological scars of Fergie's playing days, the infamous post-cup final rant that still hurts his players 40 years on. Michael Grant reveals the man behind the myth... volatile, funny, manipulative, and utterly relentless.00:00 Introduction — Hearts, the Old Firm, and Why Fergie Matters Now06:30 Aberdeen Before Ferguson — Nearly Relegated12:45 The St Mirren Sacking and the Tribunal19:20 The Westhill Willy Biters27:10 Willie Miller and the Power Struggle34:50 Breaking the Old Firm's Psychological Hold42:15 Winning the League — 5-0 at Easter Road48:00 Knocking on Fergie's Door at 3am53:40 The Liverpool Humiliation58:10 Fergie's Fury — The Morning After Anfield01:03:20 Youth Development and Building a Dynasty01:09:00 The Infamous 1983 Cup Final Rant01:14:30 Why the Old Firm Were Vulnerable — and can Hearts Can Do It Again?

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the remarkable story of Bert Trautmann — the former Nazi paratrooper who became Manchester City's beloved goalkeeper and an unlikely symbol of Anglo-German reconciliation. 70 years on from the legendary 1956 FA Cup final, Wilson and Draper trace Trautmann's extraordinary journey: from Hitler Youth member and fighting on the Eastern Front, to prisoner of war in England, to the man who played on with a broken neck at Wembley. They examine his teenage indoctrination, the atrocity he witnessed, that shattered his faith in Nazism and the 25,000 protesters at Maine Road. Along the way, they explore the brutal treatment of goalkeepers in this era and how three successive cup final incidents began to change the game's laws. Finally, they reflect on how a flawed, charismatic man became the perfect bridge between two nations.00:00 Jimmy Ashcroft and the Goalkeeper's Lot06:30 Hitler Youth — Trautmann's Indoctrination12:45 The Eastern Front19:20 Witnessing the SS Massacre25:00 Captured Three Times — Soviets, Americans, and a Cup of Tea27:10 Prisoner of War and the Accidental Goalkeeper34:50 Staying in England 42:15 25,000 Protesters48:00 Winning Over Manchester53:40 The 1956 FA Cup Final — Playing On with a Broken Neck58:10 The Dangerous Life of the Goalkeeper01:03:20 Footballer of the Year and Personal Tragedy01:09:00 Burma, Women's Football, and an OBE01:14:30 The Perfect Symbol of Reconciliation

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the 1995-96 Premier League season. 30 years on from one of the great title races. They trace Manchester United's unlikely triumph, beginning with the summer meltdown that saw Ince, Hughes, and Kanchelskis all depart, the infamous opening-day defeat to Aston Villa, and Alan Hansen's immortal verdict. From Cantona's Paris crisis and Ferguson's diplomatic dinner to Newcastle's flying start and that seemingly insurmountable 12-point lead, Wilson and Draper unpick every twist. They examine Schmeichel's heroics in the pivotal March showdown at St James' Park, the Tino Asprilla effect, the curse of the grey shirts at The Dell, and finally the extraordinary moment Kevin Keegan lost his composure on live television.00:00 Alan Hansen Sets the Scene06:30 The Summer Meltdown — Ince, Hughes, Kanchelskis12:45 Class of '92 and the Aston Villa Opener19:20 Cantona's Paris Crisis and Ferguson's Rescue Mission27:10 Newcastle's Flying Start and the 12-Point Lead34:50 The March Showdown at St James' Park42:15 Tino Asprilla and the Rodney Marsh Debate48:00 Liverpool 4, Newcastle 3 — The Moment It Turned53:40 The Grey Shirts and the Southampton Collapse58:10 The Mind Games Begin01:03:20 Keegan's Meltdown — "I Will Love It"01:09:00 United Win the League and the Double01:14:30 Why This Season Made the Premier League

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week’s episode, co-hosts Jonthan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Sports Journalist and author Jonathan Northcroft to take a look 10 years on from that extraordinary and famous Premier League win! They frame the story around key pivot points, including the Valentine’s Day defeat at Arsenal and the self-belief it sparked, plus Ranieri’s unexpected decision to still grant the squad a holiday. Northcroft traces the longer build-up through the 2013 Watford play-off heartbreak, Nigel Pearson’s cross-department reset, the 2014 Championship-winning platform (and the later FFP breach), and the club’s smart recruitment and early data use that delivered players like Kanté, Mahrez and Okazaki. They cover Pearson’s departure after off-field incidents, the scepticism around Ranieri’s appointment, his “dilly ding” media touch, rivals’ crises, standout wins over Liverpool and Manchester City, Spurs’ chase, and the city’s all-in celebrations as the miracle became real.06:35 Origins of the Build10:39 FFP and the Promotion Debate11:35 Recruitment and Data Edge17:36 Kante and Mahrez Backstories22:22 Pearson Great Escape and Exit26:10 Ranieri Arrives Against the Odds27:46 Dilly Ding and Pizza Psychology35:24 Chelsea Chaos Unravels41:42 Big Clubs in Crisis45:02 Vardy Volley and City Statement47:37 Leicester Media Frenzy53:30 Spurs Pressure and Title Night59:19 Leicester Celebrates as One01:04:30 Bonkers Finale

Welcome back to It Was What It Was the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring this Graham Taylor series to a close with the Oslo qualifier that defined his reign: a chaotic, tactically muddled 2–0 loss to Norway at the peak of their ‘golden age’, captured in painful detail by The Impossible Job. Unpacking Taylor’s mounting stress, tabloid caricature and “no‑win” selection calls—especially the dilemma of persisting with an undercooked Paul Gascoigne—before explaining how the back-three plan collapsed, England’s structure unravelled, and Norway’s alertness (including a quick free kick) punished them. The episode breaks down England’s chaotic structure, Norway’s tactical calm under Egil “Drillo” Olsen, and Taylor’s famous touchline outbursts, before tracing the fallout: “Norse Manure” headlines, concerns the players had stopped responding, and a demoralising US tour. England briefly revive by beating Poland, but lose in Rotterdam and, despite winning 7–1 in San Marino after conceding almost instantly, miss out as the Netherlands win in Poland. They assess Taylor’s broader legacy, his misfortune with timing and player form, and his later rehabilitation at Watford.01:51 Norway’s Golden Generation04:51 Tabloid Mockery Era06:11 Psychology and Pressure08:18 The Gaza Fitness Dilemma18:30 Paranoia and Tactical Switch22:50 System Collapse in Oslo25:57 Quick Free Kick Nightmare29:41 Norway Strike Again30:32 Tabloid Backlash32:07 Tactics And Trust35:18 Bigger Picture Failings42:56 USA Tour Fallout43:49 Last Chance Qualifiers45:36 San Marino Shock48:28 Reassessing the Taylor Legacy

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. In today's episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue Graham Taylor’s England story as the 1994 World Cup qualifying begins to wobble, with Paul Gascoigne’s talent and volatility dominating the narrative. They examine how Taylor’s pragmatic, direct style—shaped by lower-league realities and later linked (often unfairly) to FA long-ball doctrine—collided with more technical European approaches, and how internal battles involving Charles Hughes and data pioneer Charles Reap poisoned the backdrop. England’s campaign lurches through a Norway draw at Wembley after a late stunner, a Gascoigne-inspired win over Turkey, and a damaging 2–2 draw with the Netherlands featuring an undetected elbow and a late penalty. With Gascoigne returning in a mask, England then stumble in a hostile Poland away match and escape with a late equaliser, before Taylor’s brutal “headless chickens” verdict leaves his team heading to Oslo under growing pressure.00:24 Setting the Scene03:08 Taylor’s Pragmatic Roots06:50 Pressing vs Possession10:04 Charles Hughes and the Winning Formula13:55 Reap vs Hughes Fallout19:31 Norway’s Long Ball Irony21:59 Back to Qualifying Hopes24:10 Gazza’s Norway Controversy26:50 Taylor’s Gaza Dilemma28:22 Norway Opener Heartbreak30:53 Turkey Win and Dependence32:53 Too Honest With Press40:12 Dutch Clash at Wembley44:13 Mask Return and Mania45:52 Poland Chaos and Critique49:03 Headless Chickens Finale

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue on from last week’s episode with Jan Fjortoft to delve into how things went wrong for Graham Taylor during his time as England manager. In this first part of a three part series on Graham Taylor (following our episode with Fjortoft) we take a look at the high of Italia ’90 to the early warning signs of Graham Taylor’s troubled England reign, setting up the wider story of his eventual downfall. Central to the episode is Paul Gascoigne’s rise into “Gaza mania,” the off-field chaos and disciplinary problems that followed, including the 1991 FA Cup final knee rupture and subsequent setbacks. Taylor struggled to manage both the player and the circus around him. England qualified for Euro 1992 but drew twice, lost to Sweden and Taylor’s substitution of Gary Lineker became emblematic as tabloid ridicule culminate in a reputational collapse for Taylor.01:05 The Impossible Job Era07:39 Referees And Rotterdam12:47 Italia 90 Reality Check20:02 Gaza Mania Begins25:31 Euro Qualifiers Begin28:24 Ireland Away Selection30:08 Taylor Press Tightrope35:48 Cup Final Knee Rupture41:46 Euro 92 Sweden Turning Point42:55 Lineker Sub Controversy47:50 Fitness Gap And Refuelling49:32 Turnip Taylor Tabloid Sting