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It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap Presents An All-New Football History Podcast

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was.Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world.The show wi

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  • 80. The Man Behind Liverpool’s 20th Title - Arne Slot’s story

    47:10||Season 1, Ep. 80
    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool. On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history.00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot01:26 The Dutch Football Culture03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education07:11 Professional Career Beginnings13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects

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  • 79. Barcelona vs Inter: Pep, José, and the Semi-Final That Defined an Era – Part Two

    50:51||Season 1, Ep. 79
    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration.If you enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and rate.00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg25:23 The Myth of the Decision25:41 The Controversial Red Card26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football50:28 Conclusion and Reflections
  • 78. Barcelona vs Inter: Pep, José, and the Era-Defining Semi-Final - Part One

    45:12||Season 1, Ep. 78
    Welcome to It Was What It Was.As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory.Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself.00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery32:29 Controversies and Confrontations40:24 The Road to the Semifinals43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal
  • 77. The Horse That Changed Manchester United: The Glazer Takeover - Part Two

    58:01||Season 1, Ep. 77
    Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all!00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward43:18 Transfer Market Failures46:15 Managerial Missteps53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion
  • 76. The Horse That Changed Manchester United - Part One with David Walsh

    57:12||Season 1, Ep. 76
    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history.This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United. David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times. Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline.00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar01:25 David Walsh's Insights02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership19:26 The Financial Implications29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy34:02 Settlement and Aftermath38:39 The Glazers' Takeover41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
  • 75. Brendon Batson: Football Pioneer and Big Ron Betrayal - Part Two

    46:55||Season 1, Ep. 75
    Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football.Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television.00:00 Introduction and Overview01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges03:00 The China Tour Experience06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
  • 74. Brendon Batson: Arsenal's Trailblazer and the Three Degrees Legacy - Part One

    37:52||Season 1, Ep. 74
    Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history.Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player. Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'.00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front19:13 Conclusion of Part One20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career