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It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast
The Overlap Presents An All-New Football History Podcast
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137. The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part Three
01:06:22||Season 1, Ep. 137Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this third episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive deep into the transformation kicked off by the arrival of legendary soccer star Pele. We go on an epic journey of the NASL, from shambolic beginnings to becoming one of the most iconic and influential leagues in world football, even if just for a short while. We explore how the NASL went from drawing crowds, to attracting the highest-paid player in the world, and the ensuing excitement and challenges that followed. Featuring the key moments, star players, innovative marketing strategies, and the initial signs of financial instability, this episode captures the league at its highest just before its inevitable decline. Don't miss this fascinating look at the peaks of NASL's history and what ultimately led the league to stumble. Tune in next week for the final episode of this four-part series. 02:33 The Growth of Soccer in American Schools and Colleges03:32 Financial Struggles and the Arrival of Pele13:54 Innovative Rule Changes and Attendance Issues18:11 The Role of Media and Celebrity Influence23:55 The NASL's Expansion and Financial Commitments31:20 The Pursuit of Soccer Superstars33:01 Pele's Impact on American Soccer34:56 The Rise of NASL Franchises36:59 Challenges and Financial Struggles39:11 Marketing Gimmicks and Celebrity Players55:03 The Golden Year of 197701:04:36 Pele's Farewell and Future Uncertainties
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Recommended Replay: When Amorim Arrived at Man United And The Busby-Ferguson Curse
59:23|Following the sacking of Ruben Amorim by Manchester United, here is a recommended replay from our episode released in November 2024, when Amorim first arrived at Manchester United. Jonathan and Rob discuss the clubs persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures - something that still stands today...136. The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part Two
01:01:27||Season 1, Ep. 136Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue onto part two of a four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL). They discuss the initial attempts to establish professional soccer leagues in America, including the rivalries between the NASL and the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The episode covers the impact of foreign teams, the financial and logistical hurdles, and the ongoing struggle to gain popularity and acceptance in the U.S. market. With input from past experiences and key figures, they provide an in-depth look at why American soccer faced numerous setbacks and what was done to overcome them. Join us next week for part three!01:09 The Early Years of Soccer in the USA01:34 The Impact of the Wall Street Crash06:46 Post-War Challenges09:43 The Decline of American Soccer in the 1950s21:46 The 1960s: A Decade of Missed Opportunities27:15 The Birth of the NASL33:25 Lack of American Players in Early Leagues34:55 Rival Leagues: NPSL vs NASL35:42 Initial Matches and Attendance Issues40:11 Discipline Problems and Game Abandonments48:10 Financial Struggles and Legal Battles49:13 National Team Struggles and Attempts at Growth50:31 Foreign Influence and Pre-season Tours54:48 Financial Instability and League Contraction58:20 NASL's Unconventional Season Format01:00:32 Legacy and Future Prospects of NASL135. New Years Day Special Episode
47:41||Season 1, Ep. 135Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring you a New Years Day Special Episode. We hope you enjoy and wish you all a Happy New Year!134. The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part One
01:00:26||Season 1, Ep. 134Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside legends like Franz Beckenbauer, replacing Pele, navigating cultural shifts, and understanding the challenges and triumphs that shaped the future of soccer in America. Don't miss this deep dive into football history, glamour, and the evolution of the beautiful game in the United States.00:57 Dennis Tueart's Transfer to the Cosmos02:05 Challenges and Decisions04:19 Arrival and Initial Impressions07:15 Experiences and Reflections11:38 Life in the NASL17:18 Training and Facilities18:58 Pre-season and Early Challenges25:14 The NASL's Unique Rules29:55 Challenges and Triumphs in the NASL30:25 Play-off Performances and Nicknames30:59 Intense Matches and Injuries31:36 The Semi-final Comeback36:27 Winning the Conference Final37:40 Facing Rodney Marsh and Tampa Bay42:51 Touring and Transitioning46:53 Final Reflections and Legacy133. Escape to Victory: The Cult Classic with Pele, Bobby Moore and Sylvester Stallone | Christmas Special
01:07:17||Season 1, Ep. 133Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this Christmas Special Episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author John Smith to talk about his new book - 'Escape: A Love Letter to a Cult Football Classic' all about the film 'Escape to Victory'. The trio delve into the making of the film, revealing behind-the-scenes stories, discussing the film's historical context, and analysing the football sequences. We take a look at inside stories from the remarkable cast and crew, including Pele and Sylvester Stallone. The three discuss amusing anecdotes, the authenticity of the football matches and the film's lasting impact. This episode is a must-listen for fans of film and football history. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas from the It Was What It Was team!00:00 Introduction and Welcoming John Smith04:41 The Making of 'Escape to Victory'20:44 Historical Resonances and Themes28:59 Behind the Scenes Stories34:09 The Escape Plan in the Film37:11 The Cast and Their Connections41:36 The Missing Footballer Mystery46:01 Lack of Female Characters47:06 The Football Game Analysis53:19 The Half-Time Escape Plan58:00 The Final Match Moments01:06:13 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell132. The Cold War Classico: George Orwell on Dinamo Moscow, Arsenal & Chelsea
01:02:39||Season 1, Ep. 132Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and public's reaction, and the broader implications for international sport and politics. This episode provides an in-depth look at how football can both unite and divide, reflecting on Orwell's critique and its relevance to today's sports culture.00:00 Introduction: The Dark Side of Sports01:05 George Orwell's Influence on Sports01:49 The Political Context of the 1945 Moscow Tour02:47 The Goodwill Tour: Ideals vs. Reality05:00 The Soviet Union's Football Strategy08:23 The Arrival of Dinamo Moscow21:45 The First Match: Dinamo Moscow vs Chelsea30:53 The Political Showdown: Arsenal vs Dinamo Moscow32:31 The Final Game in Scotland35:56 Soviet Propaganda and the Legacy of the Tour40:36 Tactical Innovations and English Football's Response47:36 George Orwell's Critique of Sport53:18 Football's Role in Nationalism and International Relations01:00:51 Concluding Thoughts on Orwell and Football