It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part of our two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the roots of football violence from the 1890s through to its transformation into organised ‘firms’ in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. They discuss the origins of the word ‘hooligan’, early crowd disorder and FA crackdowns, and how post-war prosperity, youth subcultures, away travel and ‘taking ends’ helped create a new kind of fan conflict. The episode also covers the European and England-team flashpoints of the 1970s and 80s, the political and policing response to the Popplewell Report, with later links to post-Hillsborough reforms and why large-scale hooliganism declined.You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.01:39 Where the Word ‘Hooligan’ Comes From (1890s London)04:03 Football Fever: Mass Crowds and Class Anxiety12:17 What Early ‘Hooliganism’ Looked Like: Pitch Invasions & Crowd Control17:43 Players Under Attack20:25 Fan-on-Fan Violence Emerges & the Rise of Away Travel22:08 Cup Finals, ‘Football Specials’ & Patronising Press Panic27:27 Post-War: The 60s–70s Gangs Are Coming29:02 Teddy Boys, Rock ’n’ Roll Panics & Mods vs Rockers31:02 Merseyside: Away Travel & the Rise of Chanting36:53 Taking Ends: Territory, Undercover Trouble & the New ‘Game’41:58 Europe & England Abroad: From Paris 1975 to Euro 198044:00 1980s Casuals, Designer Gear & Firms Arranging Fights48:43 1985: Luton–Millwall, Heysel, Thatcher & the Popplewell Report51:28 Aftermath: CCTV, ID Schemes & Taylor Report53:50 Global Legacy: Ultras, Copycat Firms & Why Football Identity Endures

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism.You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.In a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through the World Cup! This will be dropping every Wednesday on Patreon - so we've gone with the imaginative title of World Cup Wednesdays!If you join, you'll also be getting ad-free main episodes, loads more bonus episodes, magazine retrospectives and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community.Patreon subscribers get:BONUS EDITIONSExclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTIONFlicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHANYour chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITYConnect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.What’s includedExclusive contentQ&AsAd-free episodesPrivate communityFollow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Pep Guardiola’s story at Manchester City 10 years on from his appointment at the club and the difficulties he would face in his opening season. Join us as we explore the highs and lows, from the thrilling victories to the unexpected defeats. We discuss his controversial decisions, key matches, and the significant signings that shaped the team's future. Can Pep's philosophy adapt to the rigors of English football? Discover how one of the world's most acclaimed coaches navigated his debut season and set the stage for a legacy at the Etihad. Don't miss out on the in-depth analysis and special bonus content available exclusively on our Patreon page, following the link below:https://www.patreon.com/cw/ItWas00:00 Exciting News: Join Our Patreon Community!02:51 Introduction 04:47 Pep Guardiola's First Season Struggles07:56 The Tactical Challenges and Key Matches15:52 Pep's Appointment and Early Expectations22:02 Transfer Market Moves and Squad Challenges27:53 Yaya Touré's Controversial Exit28:56 Manchester City's Winning Streak30:34 Champions League Group Stage Drama32:02 Pep's Concerns and Criticisms43:49 Champions League Humiliation51:44 End of a Disappointing Season53:19 Looking Ahead: Pep's Future at City

We're launching on Patreon! And to kick things off, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.In this first episode in a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through historic issues of football magazines - starting with Shoot!If you join, you'll also be getting all of our main episdoes ad free, bonus episodes, World Cup countdown and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community.Patreon subscribers get:BONUS EDITIONSExclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.WORLD CUP COLLECTIONOur countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTIONFlicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHANYour chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITYConnect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.What’s includedExclusive contentQ&AsAd-free episodesPrivate communityFollow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was

We are excited to announce that we will be launching a Patreon on Friday 6th February, where you can get bonus episodes and exclusive content. Follow the link below to sign up:Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It WasWelcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. On today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue exploring one of the most controversial football transfers - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. In this second part of the two-part series, they delve into the public and private turmoil surrounding the transfer, including the dramatic fallout at both clubs, fan reactions, and the momentous pig's head incident. They also examine the long-term impact on Figo's career and friendships, and the profound changes this transfer spurred in football. Don't miss this thrilling conclusion!00:00 Exciting News and our Patreon Launch02:51 Introduction to the Episode04:28 Speculation and Media Frenzy06:17 Election Drama and Figo's Dilemma07:30 The Final Decision09:52 The Fallout and Consequences11:51 The Election Results13:56 Figo's Reluctance and Pressure16:26 The Persuasion Tactics19:20 The Final Agreement28:19 Florentino's Persuasion Tactics31:22 Figo's Announcement and Gaspar's Reaction33:14 The Fallout in Barcelona40:57 The First El Clásico After the Transfer43:49 The Infamous Pig's Head Incident48:56 The Lingering Legacy and Impact53:20 Figo's Reflections and Conclusion