In/Organic Podcast

Accenture Song's planned acquisition of the Whalar agency was called the largest creator economy transaction ever. The structure underneath that headline is far more interesting than the number.In this special edition, Christian and Ayelet sit down with Chris Erwin of RockWater, one of the sharpest analysts in the creator economy, to go deep on what Accenture actually bought, what the founders kept, and why the deal structure tells the real story.Chris published a standout newsletter on this deal, and we brought him on to share his expert POV: the carve-out logic, the multi-year partnership nobody has details on, the "largest deal ever" math, and what Accenture Song buys next.What we cover: Why Neil Waller and James Street sold the agency but kept the broader creator-facing portfolio (Sixteenth, Foam, Moby Ventures, The Lighthouse, Umi Games), what the undisclosed multi-year partnership likely includes — global infrastructure, technology, enterprise client access, and balance-sheet capital, how the "$500M+ largest creator deal ever" claim squares with a $225-300M outside EV estimate, why the answer is probably a meaningful upfront payment plus a multi-year earnout, how Accenture's Droga5 precedent and stated M&A policy help reverse-engineer the structure, why the real value driver is media spend, measurement, and the performance data that unlocks $100B+ media budgets, the "do no harm" PMI era and why a prior 12-month working relationship de-risked the deal, and who Accenture Song buys next — plus why there's a genuine shortage of scaled independent creator agencies left to acquire.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 — Show note: why this special edition replaces Market and Deals Friday1:09 — Welcome and guest intro: Chris Erwin of RockWater1:38 — The backstory: Accenture Song's June 8th carve-out of the Whalar agency3:08 — "They sold the engine and kept the garage" — what that actually means4:17 — Speculating on the undisclosed multi-year partnership5:44 — Why life changes fast when you co-sell through Accenture's SOW machine6:37 — Predicting how the integration goes (and why a prior relationship matters)7:37 — The "do no harm" PMI era for people-heavy agency businesses8:01 — Is this really the largest creator economy transaction ever?8:49 — Reverse-engineering the structure: Accenture's M&A policy and the Droga5 precedent10:36 — Earnout norms: 3-5 years on larger deals, 2-3 on sub-$100M EV11:30 — Christian's thesis: Accenture is buying creator media dollars12:04 — The big-picture framing: consultancies pushing into marketing services14:05 — Why the materiality of the number unlocks everything Accenture can sell alongside it14:53 — What Accenture Song buys next — bolt-on capabilities across the creator stack16:56 — The real problem: a shortage of scaled independent creator agencies18:01 — The creator commerce wave and where the next big deals get built🎙️ Guest: Chris Erwin, Founder, RockWaterhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/chrnov/https://wearerockwater.com/accenture-song-buys-whalar/🔔 Subscribe for weekly M&A coverage on In/OrganicConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

Steve Engelbrecht started Sitation from a rental apartment in Somerville, Massachusetts — five weeks after being laid off in the chaos that followed 9/11. Today it's a 62-person commerce enablement firm with a client roster of household names and a defensible niche the big SIs can't easily replicate.Recorded live at Salsify's Digital Shelf Summit in Atlanta, Christian sat down with Steve — founder and CEO of Sitation — for a conversation about building a services-plus-software business in commerce, how AI is rewriting the buy-vs-build equation, and why a 62-person specialist can out-maneuver Deloitte Digital and Accenture Song in product data.What we cover: The Sitation origin story and the early bet on PIM before it was a category, the three pillars of the business today (systems integration, managed services, and proprietary software), why the software-services convergence is playing out in real time, the "headless PIM in 2026" conversation with Salsify's CEO and what AI agents, MCP, and CLIs mean for the future of product data, how AI lowered the bar for participation and changed buy-vs-build, the Philips case study — a 111% conversion lift on a single SKU by optimizing content, not price, why 90%+ of Sitation's team came from industry and how that makes them stickier than the big SIs, and how Steve thinks about Sitation's future: international expansion as a platform vs. fitting neatly into a larger strategic's plans.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:26 — Welcome from Salsify's Digital Shelf Summit in Atlanta1:00 — The origin story: first day of work September 10, 2001, laid off five weeks later2:11 — Early to commerce enablement — and Boston as a commerce software hotbed3:02 — What Sitation does today: the three business segments5:25 — The 2019 "pick a lane" problem and why software-services convergence vindicated the strategy6:16 — How AI is changing the buy-vs-build equation7:36 — The "headless PIM in 2026" conversation with Salsify's CEO8:33 — Salesforce going headless and the new customization opportunity for SIs10:00 — APIs, the MCP revolution, CLIs, and why schema matters for AI agents11:05 — How a 62-person firm out-maneuvers multi-thousand-person SIs11:42 — Why this is a massive market, not a zero-sum game12:30 — The Philips case study: 111% conversion lift on one SKU without touching price13:30 — Why multinationals choose a boutique over Deloitte Digital or Accenture Song15:46 — The strategic question: platform play or acquisition target?16:29 — International expansion as the organic (or capital-backed) growth path17:40 — Why Sitation's platform credentials make it an attractive, hard-to-replicate target18:45 — Why you can't build Sitation's early-mover position — you have to buy it🎙️ Guest: Steve Engelbrecht, Founder & CEO, Sitation | Recorded at Salsify Digital Shelf Summit, Atlantahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenengelbrecht/🔔 Subscribe for weekly M&A coverage on In/OrganicConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

Fourteen deals worth mentioning in a single week. And those are just the ones that surfaced.The week before Cannes, the dam broke. Christian and Ayelet break down the deepest deal review we've done yet — anchored by a transaction Ayelet's team actually advised on the sell side: Residence acquiring GateMaker, a female-founded creator and influencer agency with a blue-chip beauty roster.Plus a sponsor-to-sponsor recap in commerce services (Bluebird Group + Bertram Capital), and a rapid-fire run through 12 more deals across creator, beauty, luxury PR, B2B, and commerce.One platform investment. One deep dive. Twelve quick hits. Under 20 minutes.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:39 — Welcome to Market and Deals Friday — and a 14-deal week1:12 — Did everyone wait until the week before Cannes to announce?1:37 — Coming up: a special edition with Chris Erwin of RockWater on the Accenture/Whalar deal2:00 — Market update: Bluebird Group partners with Bertram Capital2:20 — Bertram's buy-and-build model and the Bertram Labs tech advantage3:00 — Reading the deal size from a $1.6B control fund with a 43% IRR4:00 — Why a relationship-driven commerce services business resists AI disruption5:35 — Deep dive: Residence acquires GateMaker — a sell-side deal Ayelet's team ran6:05 — GateMaker's founders, blue-chip beauty roster, and creator economy pedigree7:20 — Did Residence already have creator capability? (No — this was the capability buy)7:50 — Second acquisition in under five months: Residence is now a 9-agency network8:44 — The Gemspring-backed platform build and why Residence is now an active acquirer9:28 — The "anti-holdco" model — and Christian's pushback on the framing10:42 — Why creator and influence relationships command a premium right now11:30 — The cross-industry pattern: do-no-harm PMI for people-heavy businesses11:56 — Advisors: Palazzo and Speed M&A on the sell side12:32 — Brinkley the deal-finding agent and a 20-deal week13:20 — Quick hit: Front Row acquires Carbon Beauty (second deal this year)13:57 — Quick hit: Mazarine acquires Bacchus — luxury PR and UHNW access14:10 — Quick hit: Huge acquires Rotate — composable commerce14:27 — Quick hit: Motion Agency acquires LKHNS — B2B and video (Kim Everl's 7th)15:30 — Quick hit: Akeneo acquires Pricing Hub — PIM moves into pricing16:33 — Rapid fire: Mile Marker/Lyfe, Legion Advertising, Factual/Intelsio, Everything Branding/Darlington17:44 — The week's only disclosed number: 2X acquires KnownWell at a $400M combined valuation18:09 — Quick hit: Scorpion acquires One SEO Digital18:32 — 14 deals, one disclosed price: the lower middle market buying capability quietly18:52 — Don't miss the Erik Huberman interview (Ep. 71) + the Chris Erwin special coming up🔔 Subscribe for weekly M&A coverage on In/OrganicConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

Erik Huberman has acquired 23 agencies in 10 years — and he doesn't pay cash up front for any of them.Recorded live at Possible 2026 Ayelet sat down with Erik Huberman, founder of Hawke Media, for one of the most candid conversations about agency M&A we've ever had. No spin, no posturing — just the actual mechanics of how a bootstrapped agency built a 23-deal acquisition machine focused on the lower and middle market that everyone else ignores.Erik breaks down the deal structure that puts growth (not cash) at the center, why he intentionally did 10 deals in one year to "break the system" and learn integration the hard way, the advice from a roll-up veteran that made him simplify his contracts, and why a third of his deals don't go well — and how he absorbs that without PE backing.What we cover: Why Hawke Media stays focused on growth-stage and challenger brands instead of going enterprise, the deal structure where Hawke guarantees the founder's profitability and takes over HR, accounting, legal, and operations, why "no cash up front" filters out the wrong sellers (and the ego trap behind it), how Hawke gets to a term sheet in three days, why over-complicating contracts benefits the person being tricky, the "would you do all 10 deals again?" advice that changed everything, why Mountain Gate and most PE want him to go enterprise — and why he won't, and what it would actually take for Erik to bring on a venture-minded private equity partner.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS1:02 — The Hawke Media mission: be the best at the lower and middle market everyone else abandons2:04 — Three sides of the business: 23 acquisitions, a venture fund, and an AI tool2:23 — How HawkAI started as a predictive analytics tool and became an internal advantage3:23 — 10 years of M&A: from one deal a year to 10 in a single year4:00 — Why Erik did 10 deals at once to intentionally break and rebuild the system4:30 — The mistake of over-complicating contracts to protect the downside5:22 — Putting the risk back on the seller — and the advice that made him reverse course6:32 — The actual deal structure: guaranteed profitability, no cash up front7:03 — Why a 23-deal track record means he never has to speak hypothetically8:13 — Who this deal structure actually works for (and who it doesn't)9:23 — The "I'll be a billionaire next year" founder problem10:09 — Why founders get bogged down by the back-office work they hate10:29 — Where Hawke fits vs. Mountain Gate, Herringbone, and the scout fund operators11:21 — Why most PE wants Erik to go enterprise — and why he says no12:17 — The "wild wild west" of lower middle market deals12:29 — Three days to a term sheet: how the process actually moves13:49 — Why "no cash up front" is the first thing he says, and the ego piece behind it14:36 — Why simplicity wins: the rev-share story and avoiding the retrade game15:21 — Doing this at scale now vs. before the name — why you can't just copy the playbook15:45 — Why a third of deals don't go well, and why you have to be able to absorb it16:45 — Acquisition isn't for everyone: you have to build the infrastructure first17:23 — Why integrity and over-disclosure are baked into how the deal works18:11 — "Ask me what I had for breakfast" — radical transparency with sellers18:57 — What's next: dominating lower and middle market marketing, the reverse-franchise model19:18 — Would Erik ever sell? Why he's not bowing out — but might take a PE partner20:54 — Why he needs a venture-minded PE fund, not a traditional buyout thesis22:38 — Cleaning up the balance sheet and earning the right to that conversation22:52 — Entrepreneurship as a "mental illness" and the Mexican taco stand exit planConnect with Erik on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikhuberman/Connect with Christian and AyeletAyelet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

A month forecasted that Accenture was about to make a material acquisition in the creator space. This week it happened. Accenture Song is acquiring Whaler Agency — the most awarded creator agency in the Western hemisphere in a carve-out plus three-year partnership that's far more interesting than the headline.But is it really "the largest creator economy transaction ever"? Christian runs the math. The claim doesn't survive contact with a calculator unless there's a lot more going on than a simple agency purchase.Christian and Ayelet break down the structure, what Accenture actually bought (hint: it's the $600M in media spend and the measurement layer, not just the creators), and why this probably isn't the end of Accenture's media buying spree.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:39 — Welcome to Market and Deals Friday, June 121:20 — The victory lap: our Episode 61 Accenture prediction came true2:06 — Why the deal took longer than expected (deals just take time)2:20 — Why we didn't name Whaler at the time — protecting a people-heavy business3:05 — When and how to tell your team you're selling: a real consideration for owners3:46 — What happened: Whaler Agency joins Accenture Song, terms undisclosed4:28 — The $44B creator economy and why Whaler sits in the middle of it4:50 — The real prize: $600M in media spend + the measurement and data layer5:33 — Reading it against the holdcos: consultants are coming for creator businesses6:16 — The math problem: can this really be "the largest creator economy deal ever"?6:50 — Why a $500M price on ~$12M EBITDA (40x) doesn't add up for the agency alone8:00 — The carve-out + call option + licensing theory that makes the number work8:30 — Is Whaler Agency just step one? Why Christian doesn't think so9:46 — Accenture Song's creator build: 9 acquisitions in 2024 alone10:16 — Why $600M in media spend is the growth-acceleration play vs. single-digit agency growth12:28 — Moelis advised Whaler; Accenture Song's corp dev ran it in-house13:46 — Why this is a planned (not closed) deal — and what shareholder disclosure will reveal14:35 — Quick hit: Walker Sands acquires Rev Partners (Mountain Gate turns on the engine)15:35 — Why Mountain Gate is already doing M&A less than a year into Walker Sands16:00 — Quick hit: Channable acquires Metreon — server-side conversion tracking16:41 — Quick hit: Sitecore acquires Scrunch — AI search optimization beyond traditional SEO18:16 — The connective tissue: four deals, zero disclosed prices, all capability buys18:31 — Why AI won't kill feed management anytime soon (the 20-30% false positive rabbit hole)20:11 — The bet: Accenture's next move is about media, not agencies20:38 — Structure over headline EV — the drum worth beating for every smaller shop21:06 — Wrap and a Knicks championship wish🔔 Subscribe for weekly M&A coverage on In/OrganicConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

Kevin Simonson has now sold two agencies. The first — Metric Digital to Wpromote in 2020. The second — adMixt to Interluxe Group, announced this week. And he came on In/Organic Live the same week the deal closed to talk about what's actually different the second time around.Christian and Ayelet sat down with Kevin — outgoing CEO of adMixt, now President of Performance Marketing at Interluxe Group — for an unusually candid conversation about deal structure, integration, and why the headline multiple tells you almost nothing about whether a deal was good.What we cover: Why Kevin took the adMixt CEO seat (a turnaround that wasn't actually broken), how a single text from a friend on a Mountain Gate board started the whole process, why there was no formal auction and the buyer recommended his own banker, why a strategic that didn't already offer his service line was the more interesting buyer, the "do no harm" integration approach — no title mapping, no email changes until 2027, how deal structures have shifted from 2020 to 2026 (equity loans, rollover treatment, the 2022 law change), and why Kevin now just asks friends "was it good or bad?" instead of asking about the multiple.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:12 — Welcome and guest intro: Kevin Simonson, outgoing CEO of adMixt0:45 — Kevin's background: iProspect intern to Metric Digital to Wpromote to adMixt1:39 — What adMixt does: "we get people to buy things on the internet"2:07 — Why adMixt is different — they built their own media buying software3:03 — Who is Interluxe Group? Experiential, media, and PR for luxury brands4:02 — The Mountain Gate connection and how a single text started the deal4:50 — Reverse due diligence: why trusted relationships de-risked the process5:52 — No formal process: how the strategic buyer side reached out and stayed updated quarterly6:46 — Why the buyer recommended Palazzo as Kevin's banker7:26 — Why Interluxe was the right buyer: a brand-new service line vs. overlap at Wpromote9:29 — The "do no harm" integration: no title mapping, no email changes, slow roll to 202710:10 — Deal structure: how it's changed from 2020 to 2026 (and the 2022 law change)11:14 — Ayelet on the legal mechanics: asset vs. stock vs. membership interest purchase12:56 — Why the multiple lies: "just ask if it was good or bad"13:43 — Why structure matters more than the headline EV14:07 — Mountain Gate's acquisition tear and the standing invite to Shamrock15:11 — Kevin's credit to founder Zach and the foundation that made adMixt worth buying16:15 — Why this was an excellent turnaround, well landed🎙️ Guest: Kevin Simonson, President of Performance Marketing, Interluxe Grouphttps://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsimonson/Connect with Christian and AyeletAyelet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

our deals this week. One disclosed price. The same trade running through all of them — buyers acquiring capability quietly rather than building it.Christian and Ayelet break down what each deal actually signals about where the software and agency markets are heading — plus stick around for the live after-show with Kevin Simonson, CEO of adMixt, on the Interluxe Group acquisition.One deep dive. Three quick hits. One live after-show.What we cover: Why Sprinklr restarted M&A after nearly five years and what choosing ViralMoment first says about the market, the "tale of two cities" in AI exits — top 1% startups clearing the preference stack vs. capability tuck-ins sold as assets, why Asana's $75M StackAI deal is the other side of that coin, and how two ad tech and agency deals (Peer39/Adloox and Interluxe/adMixt) reflect the same buy-not-build logic.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 — Welcome to Market and Deals Friday0:30 — Quick market context: the data is backing up the thesis2:50 — Why corporate M&A is surging while PE volume drops4:11 — Deal #1: Sprinklr acquires ViralMoment — video-native social intelligence5:00 — The gap it fills: social moved to video, listening tools are still text-based5:50 — ViralMoment background: founded by Chelsea Hall, Carnegie Mellon, seed-stage6:27 — Sprinklr's earnings context and why this was a buy-not-build asset deal7:30 — The tale of two cities: top 1% AI startups vs. capability tuck-ins8:30 — Sprinklr is hiring an M&A role right now (and Christian's soapbox on the title)9:22 — Deal #2: Asana acquires StackAI for ~$75M — clearing the preference stack10:00 — Why this is the "right tech, right team, right investor" version of the same trade10:30 — The MIT startup angle and the agent execution layer Asana was buying11:01 — Deal #3: Peer39 acquires Adloox from Scope3 — walled garden verification11:50 — Why this matters against DoubleVerify and IAS11:55 — Deal #4: Interluxe Group acquires adMixt — performance firepower for luxury12:56 — The thread tying all four deals together: buy is beating build13:27 — Tease: big announcement next week + after-show with Kevin Simonson of adMixtLinks:Goldman report: https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/ma-volume-expected-to-surge-this-year-despite-economic-uncertaintyEY Parthenon report: https://www.ey.com/en_us/newsroom/2026/06/ey-parthenon-forecasts-resilient-8-percent-growth-in-us-dealmaking-in-2026-despite-geopolitical-and-economic-headwindsConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co

Most scaled independents looked at Grapevine.ai during the sale process and didn't get it. They couldn't process the economic model. They didn't know how to assess the technology. Justin Hayashi leaned in and won.Recorded at Possible 2026 in the Unplugged Collective pavilion, Christian Hassold and Ayelet Shipley sat down with Justin Hayashi, CEO of NewEngen, one of the most tech-forward independents in the market to break down how he thinks about acquisitions, what makes NewEngen genuinely different from its peers, and what he's looking for next.NewEngen started in 2016 as a tech company trying to dethrone Marin Software, among others. It evolved into the agency their clients always said they were and built a platform around content, creator marketing, and measurement that most of their competitors can't replicate.What we cover: The origin story; from Zulily's IPO to trying to build a bidding algorithm to accidentally building an agency, how three acquisitions in the content and creator space shaped NewEngen's differentiated positioning, the Grapevine.ai deal thesis and why beating an aggressive forecast during diligence was the final proof of conviction, how NewEngen handles integration with a "do no harm" philosophy while keeping brands like Donut Studios intentionally separate, and the buy box for what comes next: social, content, measurement, and commerce.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS00:12: Cold open: does the YC target on agency backs keep you up at night?1:08: Welcome and guest intro: Justin Hayashi, CEO of NewEngen, at Possible 20261:19: The backstory: from Zulily IPO and billion-dollar sale to Qurate, to founding NewEngen2:25: The original thesis: dethrone Marin Software and Kenshoo — and why it didn't work3:58: The pivot: from SaaS company (that clients kept calling an agency) to what NewEngen is today4:28: Tech-enabled DNA: what survived the pivot and what defines NewEngen now5:54: What scaled independents are getting wrong — and where NewEngen differentiates6:45: Three acquisitions in the content and creator space: why content was always the bet7:23: The Grapevine.ai deal: why most scaled independents walked away and NewEngen stepped up8:04: Why Caroline's conviction and operator mindset won the first filter9:00: 900 vetted, high-performing creators vs. seven million claims — the quality argument10:29: Two lenses: founder CEO conviction vs. PE underwriting — how Justin navigated both11:06: The aggressive forecast, the bottoms-up conviction, and what actually happened11:30: Zuckerberg's earnings calls as diligence data: short-form video growth 20% → 30% YoY12:43: What made Grapevine.ai hard for strategic buyers: long-tail revenue and small contracts13:37: How Caroline's client migration story played out in real time during diligence15:19: Donut Digital acquisition: "do no harm" integration and why they kept the brand16:45: LT Partners vs. Acorn Influence vs. Donut Studios: three different integration approaches17:57: The hardest integration lesson: get alignment on goalposts before you close18:59: Buy box: social/content, measurement, commerce, B2C only, $3-12M revenue sweet spot21:02: Closing take: NewEngen is the software-led agency ready to take on Silicon Valley🎙️ Guest: Justin Hayashi, CEO, NewEngen | Recorded at Possible 2026https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinhayashi/Connect with Christian and AyeletAyelet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co🔔 Subscribe for weekly M&A and agency coverage on In/Organic

iHeart to start a B2B podcast network — read the signal7:50 — Podcast agencies are still priced like services businesses, not talent factories8:50 — The valuation gap: no shared yardstick for IP and franchise value before it's commercialized9:20 — MARC: building the FICO score for franchise value — Ayelet's startup to watch9:52 — The data problem: YouTube gives real analytics, Apple and Spotify give nothing10:51 — The tech layer underneath the smaller podcast agencies — why it matters for buyers11:45 — AI tuck-in: Coupa acquires Tonkean — Israeli agentic intake and orchestration platform12:18 — Israel continues to dominate enterprise AI tuck-ins13:35 — Solstice raises $21M Series A — AI-native pharma marketing agency, content from months to 10 days14:20 — InstaAgent: out of Alchemist + YC P26, agent swarm coordination for paid social15:15 — Connecting the dots: Solstice and InstaAgent are the venture-stage version of the Silicon Valley targeting agencies thesis16:15 — Advice for corp dev teams at Power Digital, PMG, Stanza: track early stage now17:04 — What's next: episode 67 with Justin Hayashi of New Engine, and M&A Source conference panel🔔 Subscribe so you don't miss the big announcementConnect with Christian and AyeletAyelet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayelet-shipley-b16330149/Christian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hassold/Web: https://www.inorganicpodcast.co