High Notes

What if voice actors built the AI themselves?Cissy Jones is a BAFTAn award-winning voice actor whose credits include Firewatch, The Walking Dead, Fallout 4, Starfield, Life Is Strange, Halo 5 and The Owl House. She is also co-founder and CEO of Ethovox, a US voice AI company owned and run by voice actors. In this episode Cissy describes how her voice was cloned without her permission during Covid. That led her to help organise the industry through NAVA (the National Association of Voice Actors), and then to build Ethovox as a consent-led alternative to open marketplaces.Cissy explains how the Ethovox model works: contracted permission, custom recording, intensive mastering, no marketplace (so exclusivity is protected), actor approval for every use, and compensation. Cissy sets out what performers should check before licensing their voice and points to NAVA’s 13-question guidance and free AI contract rider. She also talks about the limits of “in perpetuity” clauses and argues that AI can’t replace human performance, though it can help with things like scratch work and high-volume, multilingual reads. Cissy also stresses the need for regulation.What we coverHow unauthorised cloning of Cissy’s voice during Covid led to NAVA’s organising work and then to EthovoxFrom Silicon Valley to the vocal booth, and the early roles that launched her careerWhat makes Ethovox different: consent, custom recording, mastering, no marketplace, approval for every use, and payThe questions to ask before you license your voice, including NAVA’s 13 questions and free AI riderBuyouts, AI rights and why “in perpetuity” clauses have limitsThe SAG-AFTRA agreement and plans for a fully licensed, traceable dataset with bonus paymentsProtected direct licensing, and the challenges of expanding into the UKWhere AI can support human performers, why it can’t replace them, and why regulation mattersChapters00:00 Season Four Kickoff00:44 Meet Cissy Jones01:48 From Silicon Valley02:58 Early Roles Breakthrough04:20 Why Ethovox Started07:49 Building the Team08:31 What Makes It Different10:42 Questions Before Licensing13:07 BRAVA Sponsor Break14:09 Buyouts and AI Rights16:02 Pay and Performance Limits17:25 SAG-AFTRA Agreement18:31 Protected Direct Licensing19:17 UK Expansion Challenges20:33 Future of Human Voice22:43 Wrap Up and Next EpisodeExplore the companion notes here...Links & ResourcesCissy Jones and EthovoxCissy Jones:Cissy JonesInstagram: @‌cissyspeaksEthovox: https://www.ethovox.aiNAVA (National Association of Voice Actors, US)NAVA’s AI questions to ask before you take a job: AI QUESTIONS - NAVANAVA Synthetic Voice/AI Rider (free download): AI Rider - NAVAUKEquity AI toolkit and template contract: Understanding AI | Equity (see also Episode 2, Cloned Without Consent, with voice actor Faye Dicker and Equity’s Shannon Sailing: Podcast | BRAVA )Previous episodeEpisode 5, AI & The Audiobook Pipeline, with Dan Jones, former Head of Audio Services at Hachette UK: Podcast | BRAVABRAVABRAVA - Voice Acting TrainingSign up to the BRAVA newsletterSubscribe | BRAVAThis is Season 4 of HIGH NOTES. Where every conversation is a performance.

Can AI narrate a book? And should it?Dan Jones spent 22 years at Hachette UK, seven of them as Head of Audio Services, and is now Senior Manager at Glassboxx. In this episode he takes us inside audiobook production at scale: how budgets are set, how narrators are cast across different tiers, and how authors sign off on the voice of their book.Melissa and Dan also listen to an AI-replica narration of The Odyssey. Dan calls it a “rendering”: the sound design hides some of the flaws, but it lacks the dynamic range, intonation and emotional connection a human narrator brings.Dan explains that trade publishers are largely not using AI narration, and that most of the uptake is in self-publishing and tech-led ecosystems. AI is already improving production behind the scenes, though, in editing, proofing and audio repair. They also talk about the training, stamina and preparation long-form narration demands, and why human performance still delivers something AI can’t: connection and lived experience.What we coverHow audiobooks are produced at scale: budgeting, casting tiers and author sign-offDan’s verdict on an AI-replica narration of The Odyssey, and why it’s a “rendering” rather than a performanceWhich books need a human narratorWhy trade publishers are largely steering clear of AI narration, and where it is being usedHow AI tools are already helping with editing, proofing and audio repairDirecting authors and celebrities in the boothThe stamina, training and preparation long-form narration demandsWhy connection and lived experience keep the human voice ahead, and where the industry goes nextExplore the companion notes here...Chapters00:00 Season Four Kickoff01:22 Meet Dan Jones02:23 Casting and Budgets04:53 AI Odyssey Review07:26 Which Books Need Humans09:24 Where AI Is Used12:33 BRAVA Sponsor Break13:41 AI Tools in Production16:00 Why Humans Still Win18:04 Directing Authors and Celebs20:23 Narrator Stamina and Craft24:29 Connection and Lived Experience27:04 Industry Outlook and Future29:03 Wrap Up and Next EpisodeLinks & ResourcesDan JonesDan Jones: linkedin.com/in/danjonesaudioThe OdysseyElevenLabs, The Odyssey audiobook announcement: ElevenLabs' The Odyssey audiobook by Michael Caine's AI voiceVariety, Michael Caine’s AI-generated voice to narrate The Odyssey: Michael Caine’s AI-Generated Voice to Narrate ‘The Odyssey’ Audiobook Ahead of Christopher Nolan’s MovieWhere AI narration is being usedTechCrunch, Audible is expanding its AI-narrated audiobook library: Audible is expanding its AI-narrated audiobook library | TechCrunchTechCrunch, Spotify launches an ElevenLabs-powered audiobook creation tool: Spotify launches an ElevenLabs-powered audiobook creation tool | TechCrunchAI tools in productionPozotron: Audiobook Proofing Service by PozotronThe audiobook marketPublishers Association, Publishing reaches highest ever revenue in 2025: Publishing reaches highest ever revenue in 2025Audio Publishers Association, sales and consumer surveys: Research Surveys Press Release — HomepagePrevious episodeEpisode 4, AI Risk Across Games, Dubbing, Commercials and Animation, with David Menkin: https://www.brava.uk.com/podcast/episode/3164e62c/across-all-sectors-ai-in-games-dubbing-ads-and-animation-with-voice-and-screen-actor-david-menkin BRAVABRAVA - Voice Acting TrainingSign up to the BRAVA newsletterSubscribe | BRAVA‌This is Season 4 of HIGH NOTES. Where every conversation is a performance.

AI isn’t hitting every corner of the voice industry in the same way, or at the same speed.David Menkin is a London-based actor and voiceover artist whose credits include Lego Star Wars, Final Fantasy XVI and Pragmata. In this episode he takes us sector by sector through commercials, dubbing and localisation, animation and games, and explains where synthetic voices are already replacing human performers and why.David shares his view on how corporate and medical voiceover have been hit hardest, on how short-form ads are the easiest to replace with synthetic speech, and how dubbing is under pressure from the sheer volume of content being produced. He also looks at how Italy has used contracts and transparency measures to limit AI training.David considers the real harm caused when voices are gathered and cloned without permission, and talks us through his advocacy for UK protections that go beyond the 1988 copyright law, including a “transformative right” over your voice and likeness. He discusses the red flags he spotted in an AI games casting call and shares what he’s learned about due diligence, agents and contract negotiation. He closes with his three Cs: consent, control and compensation.What we coverHow AI disruption differs across commercials, dubbing and localisation, animation and gamesWhy corporate and medical voiceover have been hit hardest, and why short-form ads are easiest to replaceThe volume pressures driving AI in dubbing, and how Italy is using contracts and transparency to limit AI trainingThe harm caused by unauthorised voice aggregation and cloningWhy UK protections need updating beyond the 1988 copyright law, and the case for a “transformative right” over voice and likenessRed flags in an AI games casting call, plus due diligence, working with agents and negotiating contractsWhy this matters beyond performers, and David’s three Cs: consent, control and compensationChapters00:00 Season Four Kickoff01:21 Meet David Menkin01:43 From Stage to VO02:54 Pragmata and Activism04:00 Which Sectors Got Hit06:24 Dubbing and Localisation08:20 Commercials Under Pressure10:58 Why He Became an Advocate14:25 BRAVA Sponsor Break15:26 AI Casting Call Red Flags19:00 Due Diligence and Agents21:56 Contract Negotiation Lessons24:59 Beyond Performers to Everyone30:59 Hope and the Three Cs35:41 Wrap Up and Next EpisodeExplore the companion notes here...Links & ResourcesDavid MenkinDavid Menkin:https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0579696/David Menkin - HatchUnions, associations and campaignsEquity AI toolkit and template contract: Understanding AI | Equity (see also Episode 2, Cloned Without Consent, with voice actor Faye Dicker and Equity’s Shannon Sailing: https://www.brava.uk.com/podcast/episode/1bb455dd/cloned-without-consent-with-voice-actor-faye-dicker-and-equitys-shannon-sailing)Previous episodeEpisode 3, UK AI Law and How to Protect Your Voice, with Dr Mathilde Pavis:https://www.brava.uk.com/podcast/episode/2415dd5e/uk-ai-law-and-how-to-protect-your-voice-with-dr-mathilde-pavisBRAVAhttps://www.brava.uk.com/Sign up to the BRAVA newsletterhttps://www.brava.uk.com/subscribeThis is Season 4 of HIGH NOTES. Where every conversation is a performance.**This episode is for general information and isn’t legal advice. For your own situation, speak to a lawyer, your agent or your union.**

In this episode Melissa talks to Dr Mathilde Pavis, an expert in intellectual property law, ethics and new technologies, who helped build Equity’s AI toolkit and has worked directly with AI platforms including ElevenLabs. Melissa asks her why the UK currently has no personality right for voice, how that compares to other countries, and whether the law is catching up in time. The real value here is practical: exactly what to check, ask and do to protect your own voice, as things stand today. The landscape is changing fast, so staying informed matters more than ever.What we coverWhy recorded voices are suddenly so valuable, and why that leaves performers and workers exposedThe UK’s patchwork of protections, and how buyout contracts and platform terms can waive themHow to protect yourself now: read contracts and terms, search them for “rights”, “waive” and “AI”, ask for carve-outs against cloning and AI training, and opt out of platform data-use settings (or contact support)Digital twin dealbreakers: ask early whether AI will be used, and make sure any replica is project-specific, time-bound and agreed in writing. Know who builds it, who uses it and who can access it, prevent it being sold on, and secure the right to have it deletedHow the UK compares with the US, the EU and Denmark, and why UK policy keeps stallingChapters00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro01:06 Mathilde’s Background01:53 Why Voice Is Valuable Now03:40 Workplace Voice Protection07:00 AI Clauses and Transparency08:07 Performers and UK Patchwork Rights11:22 Contracts and Consent Basics12:48 Pay-to-Play Platform Risks17:35 Opting Out and Taking Action19:29 Why UK Law Falls Short24:21 Digital Replica vs Personality Rights29:17 UK vs US and EU Protections31:22 EU Transparency Rules33:37 Denmark Leads on Likeness36:14 Contracts Need Safeguards37:47 Why UK Policy Stalls40:02 Consent and Data Rights42:13 Is It Too Late?43:57 Workplace Voice Precautions45:08 Performer Contract Basics47:39 Digital Twin Dealbreakers53:05 AI Riders and Agents55:40 Final Takeaways and the FutureExplore the episode companion notes here...Links & ResourcesDr Mathilde PavisDr Mathilde Pavis, Legal Counsel & Policy Adviser on AI: https://www.mathildepavis.com/Agents Counsel: https://www.agentscounsel.comFree resources for agents: https://www.agentscounsel.com/resourcesPolicyUK Government Report on Copyright and AI (18 March 2026), Impact Assessment: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/report-and-impact-assessment-on-copyright-and-artificial-intelligence/copyright-and-artificial-intelligence-impact-assessmentUnions, associations and campaignsEquity AI toolkit and template contract: https://www.equity.org.uk/advice-and-support/know-your-rights/ai-toolkit/understanding-ai (see also Episode 2, Cloned Without Consent, with voice actor Faye Dicker and Equity’s Shannon Sailing: https://www.brava.uk.com/podcast/episode/1bb455dd/cloned-without-consent-with-voice-actor-faye-dicker-and-equitys-shannon-sailing )NAVA (US), National Association of Voice Actors: https://navavoices.org/Save Our Voices Now: https://saveourvoicesnow.com/‌BRAVAhttps://www.brava.uk.com/Sign up to the BRAVA newsletterhttps://www.brava.uk.com/subscribeThis is Season 4 of HIGH NOTES. Where every conversation is a performance.‌**This episode is for general information and isn’t legal advice. For your own situation, speak to a lawyer, your agent or your union.**

Last week, Mark Graeme (OCX UK) and Mark Eaves (Gravity Road) took us inside the decision brands now face every day: AI voice earns its place for content at scale, while a human voice wins when a brand wants to connect with its audience through trust.This week, we hear from the other side of that decision: what it’s like to be on the wrong end of AI. Voice actor Faye Dicker discovered her voice had been cloned and sold via a US platform without her consent. It was downloaded more than 900 times before it was taken down. Faye tells us how she found out, what it felt like to hear her voice saying things she never agreed to, and the steps she took to get it removed.Then we ask what can be done about it. Shannon Sailing, Industrial Official for Audio and Games at Equity, the UK’s trade union for performers, dealt with Faye’s case and is now handling a wave of similar claims. Shannon explains who to contact if it happens to you, what Equity can do, and why the union pushes for the same four things every time: consent, control, compensation and transparency.Next week, we turn to the law, with intellectual property lawyer Dr Mathilde Pavis on what current UK law says about your voice, and what you can do to protect it today.Explore the companion notes to this episode here...Faye DickerFaye Dicker Voiceover Artist | Presenter, Host & Public Speaker | BristolEquityEquity – the UK’s trade union for performersAudio Committee | EquitySave Our Voices NowSave Our Voices NowSign the petition – UK ParliamentNicola Coughlan and Matt Lucas among stars backing AI voice cloning campaign – ITV NewsSign up to the BRAVA newsletterhttps://www.brava.uk.com/subscribe00:00 Season Intro and Stakes01:13 Meet Faye Dicker01:25 Career Highlights03:15 Discovering the Clone04:33 Testing the AI Voice06:52 First Steps and Evidence09:43 Equity Support and Aftermath12:38 Takedown Speed Debate14:13 BRAVA Sponsor Break15:12 How Faye Feels Now16:47 Human Voice and Advocacy18:02 Meet Shannon from Equity19:38 Patterns in Voice Theft21:37 What Equity Can Do24:18 UK Law Gaps and Fixes27:24 Defining Success Outcomes28:59 Advice if It Happens33:32 Campaigns and Pressure38:01 Future of Human Voice40:50 Wrap Up and Next Episode

This episode explores when and why a creative studio chooses AI over a human voice, and when it doesn't, from two vantage points in the advertising industry. Mark Graeme is Head of Studio at OCX UK (Omnicom Production, part of Omnicom Group, the world's leading marketing and sales company). Mark and his team produce work for creative agencies such as Adam & Eve/TBWA, AMVBBDO, and McCann, plus work directly with a mix of local and global brands.Mark Eaves is Founder of Gravity Road, part of The Brand Tech Group, working across brands including Unilever, Booking.com and TikTok. He led Gravity Road's build of 'Ode,' an AI poetry companion made in partnership with Microsoft AI and Poetry Pharmacy founder William Sieghart. 'Ode' is trained on Sieghart's own voice to listen and prescribe a poem. Every poem is read aloud by a real actor - Stephen Fry, Harriet Walter, Dominic West and Indira Varma among them - rather than a synthetic voice.Between them, we get the industry-wide picture and one deeply considered case study, both circling the same question creative directors are still grappling with: AI or human voice?Explore the conversation further in our companion article >OCX UK (Omnicom Production)Capability-production - OmnicomRennie Wind Relief CampaignRennie Wind Relief Calls Time on Britain’s Oldest Fart Cover-up | LBBOnlineRennie Baxters Story AdvertTV ad: Rennie: Baxter's StoryForrester’s 2026 Technology & Security PredictionsForrester’s 2026 Technology & Security Predictions: As AI’s Hype Fades, Enterprises Will Defer 25% Of Planned AI Spend To 2027MIT: The Gene Divide: State of AI in Business 2025https://mlq.ai/media/quarterly_decks/v0.1_State_of_AI_in_Business_2025_Report.pdfAdobe Express: Voices of AI: Music, Speech, and the new marketing soundscapeVoices of AI: Music, speech, and the new marketing soundscape | AdobeGravity RoadGravity RoadReuters Pure News from the Source Brand Campaignhttps://www.reuters.com/media-center/reuters-expands-pure-news-straight-source-brand-campaign-with-two-new-video-2026-09-16/OdeOde - Find the poem that finds you - odepoetry.aiBringing Ode Poetry to life with MAI’s audio modelsBringing Ode Poetry to life with MAI’s audio models | Microsoft AIThe Poetry Pharmacy Forever William SieghartBooks – The Poetry Pharmacy LiveSign up to the BRAVA newsletter: https://www.brava.uk.com/subscribe00:00 Season Intro and Guests01:58 Mark Graeme Background02:54 Studio AI Tools04:54 Voiceover Planning Process06:36 Campaign Voice Wins08:54 When AI Is a Mistake10:19 Hype Versus ROI12:46 Trust Gap Explained15:30 BRAVA Sponsor Break16:31 Consent and Corporate Use18:31 Future of Human Voice20:31 Mark Eaves and Gravity Road23:07 Audio Culture Resurgence27:13 Choosing AI Versus Human Voice28:31 Reuters Authenticity Case31:09 Ode Poetry Companion36:11 Why Human Poem Readings37:47 Wrap Up and Next Episode

High Notes returns for its fourth season with The AI Voice: a series about what happens to the human voice as AI gets good enough to replicate it.It's a conversation that reaches further than most people think. It affects not just performers, but anyone who's ever recorded a voice note, sat on a Zoom call, or had their voice used by the business they work for. BRAVA founder, Melissa Thom, talks to leading figures on both sides of the AI debate: Mark Graeme, Mark Eaves, Faye Dicker, Shannon Sailing, Dr Mathilde Pavis, David Menkin, Dan Jones, Cissy Jones, and Bonnie Nordling.Together, they explore when brands choose AI over a human voice, what happens when your voice is cloned without consent, how UK law is (and isn't) keeping up, and how performers can negotiate, license and protect their voices.New episodes every Thursday from 8th October. Subscribe on your preferred podcast platform, or visit brava.uk.com/podcast for more.Season 4 GuestsMark Graeme and Mark Eaves: Head of Studio at OCX UK (part of Omnicom Group) and Founder of Gravity Road, on AI or Human Voice? Why Brands Choose Both, and when big brands choose AI and when they don’t.Faye Dicker and Shannon Sailing: voice actor and Equity's Industrial Official for Audio and Games, on Cloned Without Consent, and what happened when Faye's voice was cloned and sold online.Dr Mathilde Pavis: intellectual property lawyer who helped build Equity's AI toolkit, on UK AI Law: Unfit for Purpose?, and what you can do to protect your voice today.David Menkin: actor and voiceover artist, on working across Games, Dubbing, Ads and Animation, and how AI risk differs in each sector.Dan Jones, former Head of Audio at Hachette UK, on The Audiobook Pipeline, and how AI narration is reshaping publishing.Cissy Jones: BAFTA award-winning actress and co-founder and CEO of Ethovox, on owning and protecting your voice, and what performers should check before licensing it.Bonnie Nordling: Managing Director of talent agency Nordlings, on Negotiating AI, and how agents are handling AI clauses in voiceover contracts.High Notes - where every conversation is a performance.Subscribe now so you never miss an episode.Follow us for more information:https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravauk/https://www.facebook.com/bravaukhttps://www.instagram.com/bravaukSubscribe to the BRAVA newsletter for regular updates on news, training opportunities, and insights from the world of voice:https://www.brava.uk.com/subscribe

In this episode of High Notes, we sit down with trailblazer Lynne Franks, a visionary in PR, fashion, and women’s empowerment. From shaping modern communications to founding movements that uplift and connect women, Lynne’s story is one of courage, creativity, and community.Together, we explore her remarkable journey, from her early career breakthroughs to her transformative work with initiatives like the SEED community and the What Women Want campaign. Lynne opens up about the lessons learned along the way, the power of intergenerational wisdom, and why creating safe spaces for women’s stories is key to meaningful leadership.Join us for a conversation on resilience, visibility, and purpose and discover how using your voice can spark real, lasting change.Links:https://lynnefranks.com/TED Talk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Mi1YtGHwchttps://seednetwork.com/https://www.whatwomenwantnow.co.uk/Ready to elevate your voice, confidence, and communication at work?Contact us at BRAVA Business and start making every conversation count:brava.uk.com/businessStay connected with BRAVASubscribe to our newsletter for the latest news, training opportunities and insights connecting business, acting, and voice:brava.uk.com/subscribe00:00 Introduction to High Notes Podcast00:33 Meet Lynn Franks: A Journey of Resilience and Leadership01:20 Early Influences and Career Beginnings02:49 Pioneering in PR and Fashion05:17 Empowering Women's Voices07:18 Creating Safe Spaces for Women11:30 The Seed Handbook and Sustainable Business15:17 Wise Leadership and Community Change23:27 What Women Want Campaign31:45 Final Thoughts and Words of Wisdom