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GRC Uncensored
GRC Uncensored is an experimental podcast designed to elevate real conversations with GRC professionals, auditors, regulators, and those building programs around it.
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22. AMA: GRC, SOC 2, and the State of Audits
47:23||Season 1, Ep. 22It’s the last day of 2025, which means it’s time to wrap season one. When Troy and I piloted this series, we didn’t expect thousands of you to tune in, and certainly didn’t expect to pickup the wonderfully smart Kendra to join our crew.With that, we want to thank you for encouraging us to keep this series going. We’ll be back for season 2 soon, and are taking in new pitches for episodes now. To wrap the year, we conducted a AMA on the current state of GRC. We pulled questions from Reddit and LinkedIn and tackled them live in conversation.What we coveredAre we “anti–GRC automation tools”?Short answer: no. Long answer: automation isn’t the problem. It’s misuse, blind trust, and compromised audit integrity are.Cheap SOC 2s and bundled auditsWhy budget startups often don’t have a real incentive to avoid low-cost, bundled auditors, and what you give up when you go that route.SOC 2 pentesting vs PCI DSSWhy SOC 2 allows weak or missing pentests, why PCI doesn’t, and how automated scans differ from real manual testing.Conflicts of interest in the GRC ecosystemPlatforms, auditors, and vCISOs all partner, so where does objectivity break down, and is it even possible to keep it clean?Who’s really at fault: tools or auditors?A blunt discussion on incentives, accountability, and why low-quality audits keep winning.Offshoring and the race to the bottomWhen cost-cutting leads to offshoring, what should clients actually be worried about and what’s just noise.The future of audits and AIWill AI replace auditors? Where automation helps, where humans still matter, and what happens if we stop caring about independent assurance altogether.
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21. Do Ethical GRC auditors really exist?
44:17||Season 1, Ep. 21In this episode, the crew digs into a messy but necessary topic: what does ethical auditing even mean in a market overrun with automation shortcuts, low-effort SOC 2 audits, and firms that self-declare “quality” without proving it?With Troy actively auditing today and Kendra working with auditors in real time, the team breaks down where rigor actually shows up, where the system is broken, and why SOC 2’s value is slipping as fast as demand for speed is rising.03:00 – “Quality theater” and firms self-labeling as high quality04:10 – Who defines quality—auditors or customers?05:00 – The four-hour SOC 2 audit example06:00 – The danger of “better than the worst” logic07:00 – What thorough auditing actually looks like (Kendra’s experience)09:30 – SOC 2 inconsistency across auditors and firms11:00 – Should audit firms be objectively measured?15:00 – Kendra’s “secret shopper auditor” idea19:20 – Automation platforms producing shallow “green checkmark” results22:00 – Drive-by auditors rubber-stamping automated data26:00 – Peer review and “enhanced oversight” gaps33:00 – Why the industry isn’t incentivized to fix the quality problem39:00 – Ethical auditors exist—but the system doesn’t reward them20. SOC 2, Vibes, and the Audit Arms Race
46:59||Season 1, Ep. 20This episode dives deep into the messy, absurd, and sometimes hilarious world of SOC 2 audits and compliance frameworks. Wiz CISO Expert Zlatko Unger joins the crew to talk about the expanding “acronym soup” of frameworks, the blurred lines between automation and assurance, and why finding an auditor who vibes with your team might matter more than the name on the certificate.The crew also debates the future of SOC 2 — from fast-track “15-hour audits” to the rise of AI-generated reports — and whether the entire model needs a ground-up rebuild.Guest: Zlatko Unger, CISO Expert at WizHosts: Troy Fine, Kendra Cooley, Elliot Volkman00:03 — Framework overload00:07 — Auditor “vibe check”00:11 — SOC 2’s fall from grace00:16 — TPRM and audit fatigue00:25 — SOC 2 for robots00:36 — Reform or rebuild?19. Clean Reports, Flawed Systems, and the Future of GRC
46:29||Season 1, Ep. 19TJ, Kendra, and Elliot are back, and welcomed Evan Millman, GRC Manager at Abnormal Security, for what started as a casual chat and evolved into a sharp look at compliance blind spots, the role of AI in GRC, and how professionals can shape their careers in a changing field.[00:02:00] Evan shares how he used ChatGPT to analyze a risk assessment report.[00:05:00] What GRC leadership looks like at Abnormal Security (ISO 27001, 27701, 42001, SOC 2).[00:07:00] The complicated relationship between organizations and auditors — bias, incentives, and the reality of “clean” reports.[00:12:00] Why third-party attestations are table stakes, not real assurance.[00:19:00] TJ and Evan debate solutions: peer reviews, government oversight, or is the system fundamentally flawed?[00:27:00] How Abnormal approaches vendor risk: criticality ratings, renewals, and compensating controls.[00:32:00] Tools and automation in GRC — benefits and buyer’s remorse.[00:36:00] The role of AI: evidence review, documentation search, and “trust but verify.”[00:39:00] Should GRC professionals become coders, or double down on soft skills?[00:44:00] Evan’s career advice: networking, persistence, and why soft skills matter more than technical depth.18. AI Guardrails, Foot Guns, and the Ostrich Problem
43:19||Season 1, Ep. 18This week on GRC Uncensored, hosts Troy Fine and Elliot Volkman sat down with Merritt Baer, Chief Security Officer at Enkrypt AI, for a candid conversation about the collision between AI, governance, and security. Merritt brought decades of CISO experience — from AWS to the intelligence community — and didn’t hold back, fully embracing our podcast name, on what’s hype, what’s real, and what CISOs should be doing today. Key Moments[00:03:00] – How Merritt uses ChatGPT to re-voice her own drafts — and why she immediately strips out the “saccharine” endings.[00:05:30] – Why security and innovation don’t need to “hold hands” — they just need shared expectations.[00:08:45] – The “foot guns” moment: how an accounting firm’s chatbot started teaching customers to hide assets from the IRS.[00:13:30] – Why most enterprises don’t even know where AI is being used internally.[00:15:00] – How to build guardrails that are realistic, enforceable, and tuned over time.[00:24:30] – Why “ostrich” policies will fail — and how enforcement actions, not regulations, will shape AI accountability.[00:40:00] – Merritt’s closing advice for CISOs: you don’t need to be an expert, but you do need a plan.17. The Softer (and Sometimes Spicier) Side of GRC
48:36||Season 1, Ep. 17In the latest episode of GRC Uncensored, hosts Kendra Cooley and Troy Fine sat down with Jake Bernardes, CISO of Anecdotes and host of Risking It All, to talk about the positive side of GRC. What unfolded was less about sugar-coating and more about the tensions shaping our industry from AI disruption to the shaky future of SOC 2 reports. More specifically, is there a world where we see a consolidation of regulations and frameworks in response to the sprawl we see now?[00:02:00] AI and Auditing – Will automation replace auditors or make them indispensable?[00:06:00] The Positive Side of GRC – How automation is reshaping the auditor’s role.[00:15:00] Are Compliance Platforms Lowering the Bar? – Check-the-box programs vs. meaningful assurance.[00:23:00] The SOC 2 Debate – Is it still valuable, or creating a false sense of security?[00:30:00] Toward Continuous Assurance – Dynamic trust centers and evidence as the new currency.[00:40:00] The Future of Risk in GRC – Why risk registers must evolve and become data-driven.[00:46:00] Closing Thoughts – Optimism about where GRC is headed despite today’s challenges.16. The TPRM Tug-of-War: Trust, Tools, and the AI Tradeoff
50:22||Season 1, Ep. 16This week, the crew sits down with Henry Stanley—founder of Fabrik and engineer-turned-GRC troublemaker-to dig into the messy reality of third-party risk management (TPRM). With experience across fintech, startups, and security consulting, Henry brings a pragmatic but optimistic view of how the industry can move forward.From the limits of SOC 2 and the myth of standardization to the risks and rewards of AI-powered questionnaires, the group unpacks why TPRM is so fragmented—and why that’s not necessarily a bad thing. They also get real about AI in audits, the future role of assurance professionals, and why human connection still matters.06:30 – Why TPRM Is Fragmented by Nature09:00 – SOC 2 Isn’t Enough (And Never Was)13:30 – Does Anyone Really Trust Audit Reports?17:30 – Blacklists, Quality Checks & the SOC 2 Vibe Check20:00 – The Rise of AI in Vendor Assessments25:30 – AI Answers vs. AI Confidence28:30 – Auditing the Auditors (and Their AI)32:00 – Reasonable Assurance in an AI World35:30 – Skepticism, Trust, and Human-in-the-Loop Auditing38:00 – Does AI Kill Creativity? A Side Quest44:00 – Will TPRM Be Agent-to-Agent in the Future?Guest: Henry Stanley, Founder of Security Program.ioHosts: Troy Fine, Kendra CooleyProducer: Elliot VolkmanRuntime: ~56 minutes