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Gloves Off
What Does The New Normal Look Like?
Over the past seven episodes, we’ve tracked Canada’s shocking, painful, and necessary awakening. The threat from America is no longer theoretical—it’s here, it’s real, and we’re not ready.
But something else is happening too. Canadians are responding. Travel boycotts. A rise in patriotism. A new spirit of sovereignty. Because our old relationship with America is over. Our final question to close the series: What does the new normal look like?
In this episode, Stephen Marche speaks with two people who have seen the future from different angles: Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and autocracy expert, Anne Applebaum, and legendary author, Margaret Atwood. Together, they help us sketch out the “new normal”—a world caught between democracy and authoritarianism, and where Canada fits into this new world order.
This is an episode about what’s at stake, what can be built, and why we can’t go back.
Featuring (in order of appearance): Anne Applebaum, Margaret Atwood
Watch an extended version of Stephen's interview with Margaret Atwood on YouTube August 19th.
Rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and/or e-mail us info@glovesoffpodcast.ca
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13. Ukraine and the Future of Warfare: Drone Technology, Defence, and What Canada can Learn
31:16||Season 2, Ep. 13In this extended interview,Stephen Marche speaks with Tim Mak, Editor of the Kyiv-based publication The Counteroffensive about Ukraine’s drone war and the future of warfare. They explore how Ukraine’s decentralized defence-tech ecosystem is driving rapid innovation—and what Canada can learn as it prepares to dramatically increase defence spending.Excerpt of interview originally featured in Ep 5 "How Canada Wins at Defence" Also visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including a Canadian history of dual usage technologies and a Chart that tries to imagine the sheer scale of the military budget.Follow us on YouTube
12. Trade Bazooka and Other Economic Cards: Canada, Europe and New Middle Power Alliances Moving Away from U.S.
41:07||Season 2, Ep. 12In this extended interview, Stephen Marche speaks with Anthony Dworkin of the European Council on Foreign Relations about whether Canada and Europe can build a new middle power alliance in a world increasingly shaped by U.S. and Chinese power.Dworkin explains Europe’s “trade bazooka,” the tools available to resist economic coercion, and how Canada could work with Europe and other like-minded countries on trade, defence, technology, energy and strategic autonomy.ECFR Papers Referenced: -Brussels hold’em: European cards against Trumpian coercion-Beijing hold’em: European cards against Chinese coercionExcerpt of interview originally featured in Ep 2 "How Canada Wins at Alliances"Visit our website-gloves-off.ca-for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including an interactive map outlining the number of international agreements Canada has made since Carney took office and a explanation of variable geometryFollow us on YouTube
11. What's Behind Google Maps renaming Lake Ontario: The Politicization of the Tech Oligarchs Who Want to Break Democracy: Extended Interview with Gil Durán
39:47||Season 2, Ep. 11In this extended interview, Stephen Marche speaks with Gil Durán, author of The Nerd Reich about Silicon Valley’s radical turn against democracy. They explore the rise of tech oligarchs, the political power of billionaires, the weaponization of social media, and what Canada can do to reduce its dependence on American technology.Excerpt of interview originally featured in Ep 7 "How Canada Beats Tech Influence"Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: an analysis of what some of America's largest technology groups are asking for when it comes to CUSMA renegotiations Follow us on YouTube
10. From CANADALAND: Is Carney Chinamaxxing?
34:33||Season 2, Ep. 10From our Canadian podcast friends at Canadaland: As Canada inches closer to China’s “global swagger” to escape the US’s orbit, do we even know who we’re dealing with? Host Noor Azrieh sits down with Jonathan Cheng, The Wall Street Journal‘s China Bureau Chief, a Canadian who’s been based in Beijing since 2019, to get an inside look at China’s current confidence, its trade posture, and what Beijing actually thinks of Canada.For more go to Canadaland Episode originally aired May 26, 2026
9. Canada-US Trade War: What Life with Reduced Trade with America Would Look Like
01:08:08||Season 2, Ep. 9In this extended interview, economist Dan Ciuriak speaks with Stephen Marche about what a trade war with the United States would actually mean for Canada—and why the bigger opportunity may be building new markets, strengthening our economy, and taking control of our digital future.Visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues including four charts illustrating how Canada’s trade exports are diversifying beyond the United States Follow us on YouTube
Cross Check: What Are We Fighting For?
38:18||Season 2S2 Episode 8 aftershow with Stephen Marche, Vass Bednar and Jon Shell. The trio dives deeper into the issues of each Gloves Off episode, bringing a mix of insight, expertise, and strong opinions (held at varying degrees) to their lively discussion.Canadian Shield Research:-Canada's 2026 Sovereignty Obsession is Unprecedented
8. What Are We Fighting For?
45:17||Season 2, Ep. 8Season 2 wraps with a look at what the future could hold for a middle power alliance and what Canada’s role might be in it.The people applauding Carney’s Davos speech were the same people who built and ran the system that led to Brexit, Trump, and more. How can middle powers win without returning to globalization and the same old system? How can they not just gain power but exert that power, and to what ends? These questions and more are considered by guests Alastair Campbell, a longtime British politico who served in the Tony Blair administration and now co-hosts The Rest Is Politics podcast; historian Rutger Bregman, author of Utopia For Realists and head of The School for Moral Ambition; and Julianne Smith, former United States Permanent Representative to NATO. Featuring (in order of appearance): Julianne Smith, Alastair Campbell, Rutger BregmanAlso visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: a linguistic analysis of how the concept of "sovereignty" has changed over time, based on how it has been used in the House of Commons since 1900. Follow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon ShellRate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and/or e-mail us info@glovesoffpodcast.ca.
Cross Check: How Canada Beats Tech Influence
31:33||Season 2S2 Episode 7 aftershow with Stephen Marche, Vass Bednar and Jon Shell. The trio dives deeper into the issues of each Gloves Off episode, bringing a mix of insight, expertise, and strong opinions (held at varying degrees) to their lively discussion.Canadian Shield Research:-Big Tech’s CUSMA Wish List
7. How Canada Beats Tech Influence
28:10||Season 2, Ep. 7Host Stephen Marche traces the rise of a global right-wing influence project — funded by tech billionaires like Elon Musk and philosophically rooted in anti-democratic thinkers — that is actively working to end liberal democracy worldwide…and Canada is not immune. Paris Marx (author of Hyperscale, and host of the Tech Won't Save Us podcast) and Gil Duran (author of Nerd Reich: Silicon Valley Fascism and the War on Democracy) join to ponder if tech is incompatible with democracy, and to envision a path forward for the enduring sustainability of democratic institutions. Featuring (in order of appearance): Aalia Elachi, Paris Marx & Gil DuranAlso visit our website—gloves-off.ca—for more research behind the issues from the Canadian Shield Institute including: an analysis of what some of America's largest technology groups are asking for when it comes to CUSMA renegotiationsFollow us on YouTube where you can watch our aftershow Cross Check that drops each Thursday with Vass Bednar and Jon Shell