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161 - On Play & Innovation with Michael Phillip: Hermes, EvoBio, Bitcoin, and Good Noise

Ep. 161

This week I talk play, innovation, noise, disruption, cryptocurrency, and trickster creativity with Michael Phillip, host of sister podcast Third Eye Drops, which I’m on A LOT – episodes 1028858, 44 with Doug Rushkoff, 38 with Niles Heckman, 28 with Bruce Damer, 21 with Erik Davis, 9 with Shane Mauss, 4 with Erik Davis, and this special mashup episode.  


This one was originally recorded as Third Eye Drops Episode 239, but I went ahead and painstakingly edited out over ten minutes of filler language and head-scratching to give you the sharpest and most-polished conversation possible. If you appreciate these conversations and the extra work I put in to make them shine, please support Future Fossils on Patreon! Patrons gain access to over twenty secret episodes, unreleased music, our book club, and many other great things as they spill out of my overactive imagination. 


And if you’re broke as a joke, consider rating and reviewing Future Fossils on Apple Podcasts. It helps more than you know.

We’d also love to have you in The Future Fossils Discord server, where you can find the others…


Lastly, if you’re a podcaster, I recommend you get your show transcribed affordably at Podscribe.AI.


Intro and outro music by Skytree.


Michael Phillip has appeared on Future Fossils before:

Episode 14 on Westworld

Episode 52 on Blockchain with Jennifer Sodini

Episode 67 on Magic & Media with Douglas Rushkoff

Episode 135 on The Cosmic Yes


Related External Sources:


Buy all the books we talk about on this show from my Amazon Storefront.


Lewis Hyde - Trickster Makes This World

Andreas Wagner - Life Finds A Way

Andreas Wagner - Arrival of the Fittest

Richard Dawkins - Climbing Mount Improbable

Richard Doyle - Darwin’s Pharmacy

William Irwin Thompson - The Time Falling Bodies Take To Light


Andreas Wagner at Nautilus - Why It Pays To Play Around

(*I mistakenly said the article was published at Quanta)


William Irwin Thompson et al. - The Lindisfarne Tapes

Adi Livnat - Simplification, Innateness, and the Absorption of Meaning from Context


Phil Ford’s Musicology Lectures on the Weird Studies Patreon


WJT Mitchell - The Work of Art in the Age of Biocybernetic Reproduction

(*I mistakenly said this was “Biomechanical Reproduction”)


Chris Ryan - Tangentially Speaking 69 with Daniel Vitalis


James Nestor - The Future of Breathing at The Long Now Foundation


Evolutionary fitness landscapes visualized by @_baku89 on Twitter


Related Future Fossils/Michael Sources:


MG - Cosmic Perspectives From A Fractal Planet (Burning Man 2013)


MG - Advertisement is Psychedelic Art is Advertisement (2011)


MG - We Will Fight Diseases of Our Networks by Realizing We Are Networks (2020)


MG - “Ride It” music video (2005)


Future Fossils 125 - Stuart Kauffman on Life, Physics, and the Adjacent Possible


Future Fossils 160 - His Dark Materials: Narnia, Fillory, and Coming of Age in the Multiverse, with Stephen Hershey & Kynthia Brunette


Future Fossils 159 - Michael Dowd on Post Doom: Life After Accepting Climate Catastrophe


Complexity Podcast 51 - Cris Moore on Algorithmic Justice & The Physics of Inference


And when you’re ready to switch it up, here are my music and listening recommendations on Spotify.


If you're in a tipping mood:


• Venmo: @futurefossils

PayPal.me/michaelgarfield

• Patreon: patreon.com//michaelgarfield

• BTC: 1At2LQbkQmgDugkchkP6QkDJCvJ5rv3Jm

• ETH: 0xddF0524510d6d802c3e9b0740D48CF893425664D

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4/27/2021

165 - Kevin Kelly on Time, Memory, Change, and Vanishing Asia

Ep. 165
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164 - Violet Luxton on Scientific Reductionism vs. Traditional Ecological Knowledge

Ep. 164
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Season 1, Ep. 163
This week we’re joined by evolutionary biologist Toby Kiers and Bitcoin entrepreneur Brandon Quittem for an interdisciplinary trialogue on the analogy between digital currencies and the so-called Wood Wide Web. Toby studies fungal economies in the lab, and her research challenges the commonly-held assumption that mycorrhizal networks are socialist utopia hippie love-fests. Brandon evangelizes “The Internet of Money” as an exemplary instance of biomimicry and argues that Bitcoin is doing for human finance what mycelial networks have done for terrestrial biology. And I wade in with more than my usual helping of paradoxically-critical enthusiasm to ask if “natural” really equals “healthy” or “desirable” in our rush to serve the evolutionary algorithm of technological development. This one should appeal to anybody on the “Transhumanist Bitcoin Bro to Luddite Biodynamic Farmer” spectrum…share your thoughts about the episode in ourFuture Fossils Discord server or Facebook group, where it’s easy to link up with amazing fellow weirdos.Brandon’s Website & TwitterBrandon’s article, “Bitcoin is The Mycelium of Money”Toby’s Website & TwitterToby’s TED talk, “Lessons from fungi on markets and economics”If you believe in the value of this show and want to see it thrive, support Future Fossils on Patreon and/or please rate and review Future Fossils on Apple Podcasts! Patrons gain access to over twenty secret episodes, unreleased music, our monthly book club, and many other wondrous things.Music by Future Fossils co-host Evan “Skytree” Snyder.I transcribe this show with help from Podscribe.ai —which I highly recommend to other podcasters. If you’d like to help me edit transcripts for my upcoming Future Fossils book project, please let me know!I’m @michaelgarfield on Twitter & Instagram.If you’re looking for new ways to help regulate stress, get better sleep, recover from exercise, and/or stay alert and focused without stimulants, let me recommend the Apollo Neuro wearable.I have one and appreciate it so much I decided to join their affiliate program. The science is solid.And for my fellow guitarists in the audience, let me recommend you get yourself a Jamstik Studio, the coolest MIDI guitar I’ve ever played.I just grabbed one this year and LOVE it. Videos soon!Enjoy, and thanks for listening!Additional Resources:Future Fossils 161 - Michael Phillip on Play & CreativityFuture Fossils 81 - Art Brock on Holochain and the Future of CurrencyFuture Fossils 56 - Sophia Rohklin on Anarchy, Ecology, Economy, and ShamanismComplexity 35 - Geoffrey West on Physical Scaling LawsComplexity 13 - Brian Arthur on the History of Complexity EconomicsComplexity 8 - Olivia Judson on Life’s Major Energy TransitionsDeep Facebook thread on the un/sustainability of blockchains & cryptocurrenciesRegen NetworkWhen you’re ready to switch it up, here aremy musicandlistening recommendationson Spotify.And if you're in a tipping mood:• Venmo: @futurefossils•PayPal.me/michaelgarfield• Patreon:patreon.com//michaelgarfield• BTC: 1At2LQbkQmgDugkchkP6QkDJCvJ5rv3Jm• ETH: 0xddF0524510d6d802c3e9b0740D48CF893425664D

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