Frank and Stan Chats

It has taken a little while to agree on a slot but, at last Adrian Bethune, founder of Teachappy, part-time Primary School teacher, Lead author for Oxford University Press' International Wellbeing Curriculum, Deputy Chair of the strategic board for Well Schools, Associate lecturer at Oxford Brookes University, Wellbeing Governor at Broughton Community Schools and most importantly, father to two young boys joins our chat. And what a brilliant guest he turns out to be. In fact, the discussion around pupil and teacher wellbeing engulfs the conversation so much that we only have time for Adrian to share his 'what's caught your eye' this week slot.The conversation considers some of the practical issues that can support better wellbeing for staff, but this then leans into how teaching staff can support their pupils better in managing their own physical and emotional wellbeing. Adrian draws on international comparisons and considers the vast array of research on the topic of well-being in making a case for it to be more prominent in judging how effectively schools are led.Adrian draws attention to a book he is currently reading called 'Poor' by Katriona O'Sullivan. He explains how the author draws on her struggles as a child and how they continue to impact her through adult life. Frank then recalls the work of Kerry Hudson called 'Lowborn' that follows a similar vein. These act as a timely reminder of the reality of deep poverty.A brilliant chat. Adrian has agreed to return to the chat, and we are very keen to make this happen.

Happy New Year! We are delighted to upload a fascinating chat we had with Dame Kathy August. Kathy is a former Headteacher, a senior local education authority leader, Manchester's first academy CEO, former Board member at Ofsted and Honorary Visiting Professor at Salford Business School. She's also an author and now works as an independent adviser. So, an impressive and varied career which comes to light during a wide ranging chat.Stan gets things moving by considering 'survivor bias'. He reflects on the choices made by politicians and education leaders who are heavily influenced by their own education experiences. These are usually viewed as successful. Stan makes the point that more attention needs to be given to those failed by the system to better understand what needs to be changed to help them succeed, therefore avoiding inherent 'survivor bias.Kathy then reflects on the proposal to introduce MAT inspections. She's in favour but highlights the dangers and pitfalls in the proposal. She is concerned how a value for money judgement would be reached and how the associated inspection Framework would be developed. Frank explains how MAT inspections could be used to reduce the impact and number of school inspections.Frank then considers a quote he saw from Neil Jurd, author of The Leadership Book and former guest on the Frank and Stan Chat. We discuss the impact of influencers and Frank wonders whether he is such a person. Kathy offers insight into the negativity of such individuals. The quote is copied here 'I am sometimes asked to account for the success of influential people whose leadership style is so different from the inclusive and positive leadership style that I advocate. The usual examples are self-serving politicians whose style is divisive and egotistical, or further along the same scale, dictators, and despots. But of course, there are self-centred, narcissistic, and egotistic people thriving in senior positions in all walks of life. You may know some, and their energy and impact are likely to be negative.These people inhabit senior positions, but their intrinsic motivation is usually self-centred; they lead in order to serve their own purposes. For their own recognition and wealth, rather than for any greater good. In my experience, these people do not lead in the truest sense of the word. I call this 'false leadership'; it is presented as leadership, and it looks like leadership from a distance, but it lacks the meaning, substance and positivity of the real thing.'There is so much more covered in the chat but you will have to watch or listen to find the gems.Enjoy.

The final Frank and Stan Chat of 2025 sees them chatting with Jan Allen, a former Headteacher of a large secondary school in Rochdale and now the Director of the Education Community Partnership. Jan decided to step away from headship at a time when many would have decided to stay. She had achieved a Good Ofsted but felt she needed a new challenge. As someone committed to the community she served, she decided to try and support students and young people who face multiple and considerable challenges through working with voluntary agencies and charities. She admits the recent experiences have provided a deeper insight into the impact of poverty and the challenges young people face.Stan considers the Reform Party's proposals to utilise the spaces available in rarely used churches to help address the SEND crisis. He believes it is a crazy and ill-considered idea. Jan then reflects on the well-publicised Safeguarding report on the approaches to behaviour management at Mossbourne MVP in London. We all consider the response from the government's behaviour tsar over the issue and how the report author appears to have successfully held a secure handle on the issues. Frank then reflects on an article he recently published by Forum Strategy that focuses on the importance of the community.It's a wide-ranging discussion. We hope you enjoy it. We are back in early 2026. Happy festive greetings from us both.

Since 2020, the Frank and Stan Chat has been fortunate to have Eric Craven, a former Senior HMI, and more recently, an acclaimed poet, as a guest. Eric's observational and reflective approach makes his poems accessible, humorous and highly enjoyable. Last year, Stan composed a poem, and this year he offers the same again. So, four Eric poems and one from Stan, entwined with some general chat, generally focused on education and leadership. What more do you need to lift spirits as we head into the festive period. Enjoy.

This week we were fortunate to have Lois McClure, an amazing colleague who has worked at the Coop Group for 13 years and took an apprenticeship route into her career. She explains how she became aware at College that she didn't want to go to university even though there was pressure from the teachers to do so. She knew she wouldn’t enjoy 'going to lectures and then going back to a room to write an essay about it'. So, she embarked on a varied career with the Coop which saw her winning a number of national awards as an apprentice, speaking to large audiences about her work and the value she places on cooperative values as well as accepting any new challenge with a 'Yes mentality'. Some parts of the chat are worthy of sharing with students thinking of apprenticeships as well as emphasising the way she embraces new challenges. It is ok to feel nervous. Stan considers the learning he gained from a conference he attended the day before on workplace psychology and Frank draws attention to Alex, a follower of the chat who shared their Spotify Wrapped outcomes which saw over 450 minutes listening to our chat in the past year. Amazing. We would love to have this colleague along as a guest. With just two more Frank and Stan Chats before the Christmas break we have begun reflecting on some of the many highlights this year. We will share these in the two remaining editions. Thank you for your support. Enjoy!

In January 2021, the gents were connected to Henry May, a social entrepreneur based in Bogotá. Henry had moved to Colombia to begin social projects to improve the lives of less fortunate young people. He set up Coschool, a social enterprise focused on creating and implementing experiential learning programs. His teaching experience in London and his own personal education journey helped him realise how important the non-academic aspects of education were. He also knew how powerful sport could be in encouraging young people to engage more fully with education. He set up Coschool and the Huracan Foundation to achieve his ambition of a fairer life for all. Henry has a clearly defined education philosophy, and it is refreshing to hear a colleague explain so cogently what many educators believe in the UK but feel unable to express.Stan kicks off by explaining how shocked he was to find how AI can manipulate images for sexual gratification. The chat considers whether banning things helps. Henry then explains how character education, a young person's wellbeing and opportunities for social beneficial activities increasingly play an important part in Colombian education. Frank then considers how two words can change the responses to attendance data.It's a belting chat. Henry has agreed to return to our chat. We can't wait.Enjoy

One of the great joys for those of us involved in the Frank and Stan Chat is that some amazing educators are willing to spend some time chatting to us about the things that interest them. On occasions, we feel as though we know quite a bit about their area of interest, but today was slightly different. We were joined by Mark Philips, a former Senior HMI and National Lead for Music, who was able to draw on a vast range of experience and insight. The chat is useful for those with an interest in the arts, particularly, music but it will also be useful for those who worry about a balanced curriculum and whether opportunity is really for all.Stan gets things moving by considering the changes that will need to be made by schools to accommodate the demands of Martin's Law. Mark then reflects on the city of Manchester, its vibrancy, its welcome and the way it has transformed into an economic success story. Frank then considers the place of 'carousels' in the school curriculum. This is where Mark really comes to the fore.Enjoy and share.

With over 250 weekly Frank and Stan Chat, including nearly 20 SPOTLIGHT editions, the bar is high in terms of guests making a highly positive impression. What becomes clear in this SPOTLIGHT with Les Walton is that there is a highly experienced colleague with a clear philosophy and a burning ambition to encourage collaboration and cooperation. In an earlier part of his life he led a Secondary school, a College, set up Schools North East and advised a number of PMs on education policy. If you have a spare 40 minutes I suggest you sit back and listen carefully to his insight and reflect on its relevance in your school or College. One of the very best Chats we have been fortunate to undertake. Enjoy.

This is a really important weekly chat because every year we invite Carolyn Eyre, a professional colleague well informed in the area of child protection and safeguarding. Her chats always cover areas that we have missed, and highlights changes that are afoot. She believes we are at the start of a storm, and many appear unaware that the storm is coming. Stan considers the likely impact of the government setting an expected national standard of 75% for children to reach 'a good level of development' in Early Years. He references Goodhart's law, which states, "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". Carolyn then explains what changes and proposed laws, currently being progressed through Parliament, will have a significant impact on Keeping Children Safe. She also unpicks skilfully Ofsted's weaknesses in how safeguarding is inspected. Frank then considers the research published by the University of Manchester in October 2025, 'Lost learning: Prevalence, inequalities and outcomes of internal exclusion in mainstream secondary schools' by Emma Thornton, Qiqi Cheng, Ola Demkowicz and Neil Humphrey, which examines the reasons for isolation, who are more often given it and its impact on those students and those who are not. The results are surprising and challenging.You would expect us to say how good the chat is, but I suspect there is quite a lot in this discussion which would be of interest to many in schools, parents/carers and education leaders in general.