Frank and Stan Chats

Dave McPartlin is the Headteacher of Flakefleet Primary School in Fleetwood. He is an extraordinary colleague who has driven improvements at his school for the benefit of his pupils, but also for the local community. We last visited the school in November 2023, when he was just about to open a community cafe. We were delighted to walk around the school, chat with staff and pupils and finish off the visit by recording our weekly chat there. Dave is probably best known for leading his school to the Britian's Got Talent final...and winning. But, it would be totally wrong to make this his greatest achievement because he has committed his career to working in some of the most socially and economically challenging areas of the North West and has made a significant impact in raising aspirations and outcomes. He has used the recognition he has gained to comment on important education issues. This week, Stan considers the rather mixed messages being offered around the importance of attendance while Dave comments on the woes at Ofsted. Frank completes the chat by considering what Trust and Governing Boards can learn from the problems currently being experienced at Manchester City FC.

No guest has appeared three times in a year on the Frank and Stan Chat. Dame Kathy August is the exception. She has worked for over forty years in the public sector (Education) with three Headships and Director posts in LEAs. She was Principal of one of the first city Academies in Moss Side, Manchester, which opened in 2003 and became outstanding in 2008/09. Following this, she was Deputy Chief Executive and Acting Chief Executive of a large multi-academy trust and then helped a new trust establish itself in the East of England. She was awarded a DBE for services to education in 2014. More recently, she was a Board member at Ofsted and has written two books on school improvement and leadership. Her recent collaboration with Tom Clark saw the publication of the brilliantly informative and insightful book 'Voices of the Education Vanguard'. During the discussion, Kathy misquoted the description of John Patton. It was in fact, ‘arrogance mixed with lack of confidence’ The chat covers Stan's reflections on research undertaken by 'ICT Mr. P' on why teachers are leaving the profession. We all reflect on toxic leaders and the culture they sadly promote. Kathy then considers the PM's speech, and Frank closes the discussion with thoughts on the shift in approach that is required when a school is retracting, as against a period of expansion. A highly enjoyable chat. We are pleased to report that Kathy is keen to join us again in the autumn of 2027.

The second Live Edition of the Frank and Stan Chat took place at Lacey Green Primary School in Wilmslow last week. We were a tad nervous about the technology but it all worked well. We asked delegates to submit questions in advance, but neither of us had sight of them. We randomly selected them and asked the author of the question if they fancied joining us. Some chose to. The discussion was fascinating. We are keen to give the live version of our chat another go, if someone will have us! Let us know what you think.

In February, Mel McMorrow was a guest on the chat. She had just published an amazing book called 'You've got me today!'. It draws on her extensive experience working in some of the most challenging secondary schools in the North West. We were keen to invite her back and were a little surprised when she informed us that she would like Sarah Highfield to join as well. Frank has seen their incredible work first-hand when he was the CEO at the Coop Academies Trust. Mel was the teaching and learning guru at one of the academies and Sarah was second in the Maths department. The big news they shared was that they had recently started a tutoring business and they were really enjoying it. So, that's what they offered for the 'What's caught your eye' section. Stan discussed the Seldon and Bunting report on AI and Frank reflected on some wise words offered by Christian Schiller in 1946. There is always a varied mix of topics on the Frank and Stan Chat. Enjoy

This week, the Frank and Stan Chat is delighted to have Mark Phillips, a former HMI with expertise in music education, rejoin us after a highly enjoyable and well received guest appearance last year. Stan gets things moving by reflecting on the recent ITV documentary 7Up. He considers how many significant life changes and developments take place between the ages of 7 and 21 and how they play out in later life. Mark then considers the difference between knowledge of music and participation in music. He explains why engagement is so important and why some schools struggle to create a high-quality music experience for pupils. Frank then draws on some recent social media covering the OECD PISA results. He reads an X message from Prof Andy Hargreaves's (a frequent guest on the chat), where he explains why we need to 'get a grip on these bigger issues, together, and stop rearranging the nationalistic deckchairs on the glocal Titanic'.We also explain how we are going to manage the second Live Edition of the Frank and Stan Chat in Cheshire on Thursday. It's going to be an interesting ride.Enjoy.

Frank has known Mick for close on 20 years and had been keen to invite him to be a guest on the chat. He's a major figure in education, bringing a wealth of varied experience aligned with a strong academic background. His collaboration with Tim Brighouse, 'About our schools; Improving on previous best' is a seminal book. In this chat he doesn't disappoint. Stan opens the conversation, considering the difficulty (or not) of GCSE mathematics and why progress appears to slow in secondary schools. Mick then explains why he is such a strong supporter of 'The Open School' movement. Frank then considers why truth matters and why a strong ethical approach to leadership is essential for being honest with those being served and those being led. It was a privilege spending 40 minutes chatting with an education colossus. Enjoy. We certainly did.