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cover art for Drum Tower: Back to the future

Drum Tower

Drum Tower: Back to the future

As China re-shapes the existing world order, its officials argue that the values behind it are Western and not universal. Western leaders worry that China is merely trying to make the world safe for dictatorships. Do universal values exist?


The Economist’s Beijing bureau chief, David Rennie, and senior China correspondent, Alice Su, talk to Zhou Bo, a former senior Chinese army colonel, and to Zha Jianying, a Chinese writer in New York. 


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  • Climbers (part four): The American dream

    44:09|
    The Chinese and American dreams both extol working hard to achieve success. But in recent years, for many Chinese, attaining that dream has felt out of reach.Some have decided to pursue the American one instead. They embark on the zouxian journey, which takes them from South America to the US through some of the most difficult and dangerous terrain in the world.   Drum Tower has been following Chinese migrants on this path from Necoclí, on Colombia’s Caribbean coast, to Tapachula in southern Mexico, to Jacumba Hot Springs in southern California. The migrants have trudged over mountains, forded rivers and been robbed and extorted by gangs and cartels. But none of them have given up hope of making it to America.This week we go to Monterey Park, California, where the new arrivals try to build their lives. They come to Fatty Ding Plaza, a nondescript shopping mall, to find informal work, a place to live and to connect with other migrants. In the final episode of our four-part series, Alice Su, The Economist’s senior China correspondent, catches up with the migrants she met along the way. As they begin the next chapter in their quest for the American dream, she asks, was it worth it?Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Climbers (part three): The wall

    41:10|
    Jacumba Hot Springs is a speck on the map of southern California. Cacti and desert sage bake beneath the sun and the border wall looms on the horizon.Migrants trying to enter America scramble over or under it. But close to Jacumba, there’s a tiny spot where the wall peters out. People simply walk around it. Any relief at having crossed the border is short-lived. Chinese migrants on their zouxian journey need to turn themselves into the US Border Patrol, and fast. If they don’t, they will be denied the right to seek asylum. Still, those who do seek asylum may spend the first few months of their American dream in detention.  In the third episode of a four-part series, Alice Su, The Economist’s senior China correspondent, heads to Jacumba and meets Chinese migrants who’ve just found their way around the wall, and arrived in America. Are they really drawn to the country’s ideals of freedom and democracy? Or are the migrants exploiting a broken border and asylum system? And do the Chinese migrants we’ve been following, who’ve made it this far, turn themselves in? Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Climbers (part two): Snakeheads and ladders

    37:19|
    They’ve trudged over mountains, forded rivers in wooden canoes, then ridden buses the length of central America. For Chinese migrants on their zouxian journey, Mexico is the only thing separating them from their American dream.Tapachula, in the country’s south, is their first port of call. This small city, just across the border from Guatemala, has become a hub for migrants on their journey north. But making it to Mexico’s northern border isn’t easy. Governments across the region are doing what they can to deter migrants from making it to the US. And that’s pushing migrants into the hands of criminal groups who rob and extort them.  In the second episode of a four-part series, Alice Su, The Economist’s senior China correspondent, travels to Tapachula and sees the human cost of this game of snakes and ladders. How will the migrants she’s met survive the maze that is Mexico?Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Climbers (part one): A way out of China

    42:27|
    Necoclí is a tiny town on Colombia’s Caribbean coast. Beach bars blast party music and sell brightly-coloured cocktails. But Necoclí is not just a tourist destination. It is also a stopping point for migrants heading to the United States.The fastest-growing group among them are Chinese. They are on a journey they call zouxian, or walking the line. Disillusioned with the Chinese dream, they have decided to chase the American version. But first they face a journey that is fraught with peril.  Necoclí is the place migrants stock up on supplies and cash, before putting their trust in smugglers who will guide them across the Darién Gap, a treacherous stretch of jungle separating Colombia and Panama.In the first episode of this four-part series, Alice Su, The Economist’s senior China correspondent, travels to Necoclí to meet Chinese migrants on their zouxian journey, and asks what drove them to leave China and take such risks.Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Black boxes (part two): Michael Kovrig on his three-year detention inside China’s secret security state

    44:46|
    Michael Kovrig spent his first six months at the Dahongmen detention centre in solitary confinement. Inside his padded, windowless cell, the lights were never turned off. They would stay on for the next three years.The former Canadian diplomat quickly realised that survival demanded a strict physical and mental regime. He would need it. 1,019 days passed before the political game that put Mr Kovrig in Dahongmen was resolved. In the second episode of a two-part series, David Rennie, The Economist’s geopolitics editor, speaks with Mr Kovrig about how he survived inside a machine designed to crush the human spirit.Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Black boxes (part one): Michael Kovrig on how he became a political hostage in China

    27:59|
    The day Michael Kovrig disappeared into China’s security machine began unremarkably. The former Canadian diplomat was in Beijing to pack up house; he wrote talking points for a speech, then grabbed a late dinner with his partner. But when the couple arrived back at his apartment, men in black were waiting for them. Mr Kovrig was pushed into a waiting SUV. Handcuffed and blindfolded, he was driven to a detention centre in southern Beijing that would be his home for the next 1,019 days. September 24th 2024 is the third anniversary of Mr Kovrig’s release. And now he is ready to talk publicly about his ordeal. In the first episode of a two-part series, David Rennie, The Economist’s geopolitics editor, speaks with Mr Kovrig about the night he was seized, and how his detention was part of a far bigger geopolitical game.   Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • From exile to high office: one ambassador's fifty years in China

    44:25|
    In 1971 Jaime “Jimi” FlorCruz, a student leader from the Philippines, arrived in Beijing, eager to explore Mao’s China. But when President Ferdinand Marcos announced a crackdown on leftists, Mr FlorCruz found himself stranded. What began as a three-week visit turned into five decades of witnessing China’s transformation.During his time in China, Mr FlorCruz became a well-known journalist, working as the Beijing bureau chief for Time magazine and CNN. In 2022, he was appointed the Philippines’ ambassador to China by President Ferdinand Marcos Jr., the son of the man whose regime had made it impossible for him to return in the 1970s.David Rennie, The Economist’s geopolitics editor, sits down with Jaime FlorCruz and asks: how close can any foreigner get to understanding China? And how have the transformations in Chinese politics changed his relationship with the country?Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Going live or going dark: why China is cracking down on live-streamers

    38:27|
    Live-streaming is big business in China, with millions of broadcasts happening daily, featuring everything from shopping deals to dating advice. This digital gold rush has lifted many out of poverty and made others wealthy, but it comes with risks. In a country where censorship is pervasive, streamers must toe the line on socialist values—or face being shut down.Jiehao Chen, The Economist’s China researcher and “Drum Tower” producer, hosts this episode with Ted Plafker, our China correspondent in Beijing. Together they ask: what’s life like inside this dynamic but precarious world, and what does the increasing censorship of live-streamers for flaunting wealth say about China today?Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.
  • Second chances: China’s divorced dating scene

    38:04|
    Just a generation ago, divorce in China was seen by many as shameful. But times have changed—divorce rates are soaring and what was once taboo is now openly discussed. This shift has brought a wave of older singles back into China’s marriage market. David Rennie, The Economist’s Beijing bureau chief, and Alice Su, our senior China correspondent, ask: what does the remarriage market reveal about modern China, and what hopes and fears drive these older singles as they seek new partnerships?Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.