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Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny

The price of primacy with Hugh White

On this episode of Democracy Sausage, eminent strategic studies expert Hugh White joins Mark Kenny to examine Australia’s strategy for dealing with rising tensions between the United States and China and the prospect of armed conflict in the region.


For decades Australian leaders have said the country doesn’t need to choose between its history and its geography - between the United States and China - but has this position now been abandoned? Is the Chinese Government making an example of Australia by putting it in the diplomatic deep freeze? And how are other governments in the region, such as New Zealand and Japan, managing their relationships with the United States and China? On this episode of Democracy Sausage, principal author of the 2000 Defence White Paper, Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies Hugh White, joins Professor Mark Kenny to discuss regional tensions and Australia’s strategy for managing its relationships with China and the United States.


Hugh White is Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at the ANU College of Asia and the Pacific, The Australian National University.


Mark Kenny is a Professor in the ANU Australian Studies Institute. He came to the university after a high-profile journalistic career including six years as chief political correspondent and national affairs editor for The Sydney Morning HeraldThe Age, and The Canberra Times.


Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We’d love to hear your feedback for this podcast series! Send in your questions, comments, or suggestions for future episodes to podcast@policyforum.net. You can also Tweet us @APPSPolicyForum or join us on the Facebook group.


This podcast is produced in partnership with The Australian National University.

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