Debunking Economics - the podcast

In this episode of the Debunking Economics podcast, Phil Dobbie and Steve Keen explore the core of economic theory: the definition of value. They contrast the classical cost of production theory with the neoclassical focus on subjective utility, arguing that while neoclassical models often fail mathematical rigor, the cost-plus approach reflects how real firms operate. The pair discusses the critical role of innovation and market segmentation, noting that while competition typically forces margins back toward production costs over time, elite brands like Ferrari can maintain high markups by intentionally limiting supply and occupying unique segments where value is tied to exclusivity. Ultimately, they conclude that while short-term utility and innovation drive initial pricing, the long-term evolutionary dynamic of capitalism is anchored by the actual costs of production.

This week Phil and Steve examine the concept of compound interest and its inextricable link to exponential growth in a world with finite resources. They discuss how interest was historically viewed as a sin—the crime of usury—across major religions until the industrial revolution provided the physical growth and energy consumption necessary to support such financial claims. The duo highlights the systemic risk posed by the expectation of permanent improvement in living standards, noting that while interest rates may not have an inherent limit, the biosphere certainly does.

Phil points out that the US is likely to spend $1.5 trilion on defense/offense spending this year. Acknowledging that sovereign currencies can essentially create money to fund defense, doesn’t there get a point where too much is just too much? A significant portion of this expenditure flows to major defense contractors like Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, often resulting in "corporate welfare" where increased military budgets are prioritized over social welfare. Steve says that while money creation is theoretically limitless for the US, the real-world constraint lies in physical production capabilities and the availability of essential materials like rare earth elements, which are largely refined in China. This strategic dependence on foreign resources, combined with the inflationary pressures that can arise from massive government spending, suggests that a nation's ability to sustain a war is ultimately determined more by its domestic manufacturing capacity and resource security than by its purely financial reserves.

This week Phil and Steve dive into the mechanics, ethics, and economic consequences of a Windfall Tax.The discussion starts with the UK’s energy levy on North Sea oil and gas producers, questioning why these taxes are often temporary "clunky" fixes rather than permanent structural policies. They explore the fundamental disconnect between international corporate profits and the national resources they exploit, comparing the UK's approach to the nationalized success of nations like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Norway.The conversation expands beyond fossil fuels to ask: Should the same logic apply to the "tech bros" of Silicon Valley or the banking sector, both of which benefit from network effects and central bank policies that create massive profit "windfalls" without a corresponding increase in production costs?

In this episode of the Debunking Economics podcast, Phil and Steve Keen explore the shifting value of higher education, questioning whether the move toward commercialization and high student debt is fundamentally undermining the learning experience. Steve reflects on the decay of academic standards over the last thirty years, arguing that universities have transformed from centers of scholarship into profit-driven credential mills that prioritize enrollment numbers over depth of thought. They discuss the rising financial burden on graduates—averaging £53,000 in the UK—and compare the declining real-term starting salaries of academics and white-collar professionals with the robust earnings of skilled tradespeople like plumbers. The conversation also tackles the looming threat of AI, which Steve fears will amplify the trend of superficial learning by replacing critical thinking and clerical skills, ultimately risking the creation of an "uneducated community" more focused on paying off debt than engaging in meaningful discovery.

Phil and Steve Keen discuss Steve’s recent experience at the World Forum in Berlin, which he frames as a progressive "antidote" to the World Economic Forum. Their conversation touches on a wide range of global issues, including the conflicted leadership in the Palestinian Authority and Israel, the necessity of a two-state solution in Gaza, and the controversial role of figures like Hillary Clinton and Bob Geldof. A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on Steve’s proposal to expand the legal definition of ecocide to include criminal negligence, arguing that economists and corporations should face personal liability for their role in climate change. Phil remains sceptical of the practical enforceability of such laws given the entrenched interests of powerful nations, but both agree that current international agreements like COP are largely ineffective, serving more as a venue for fossil fuel lobbying than real environmental progress.

This week Phil and Steve dissect Elon Musk’s futuristic vision of a moneyless society driven by AI and ubiquitous robotics. Drawing parallels to Marxist ideals and ancient "slave" societies (reimagined with robots), they explore the logistical impossibilities of such a world—from the staggering mineral requirements for billions of droids to the complex social dynamics of status and resource allocation in the absence of a pricing mechanism. Ultimately, they argue that while our current monetary system is flawed, the move toward a post-scarcity world requires a "better" multi-dimensional currency rather than the complete abolition of money, which serves as a vital tool for managing scarcity and human competition.

In this episode we ask whether monetary policy actually works, as the RBA lifts rates to 3.85%—well above other advanced economies—despite inflation being driven by capacity constraints rather than excess demand. We explore why higher rates may worsen the problem by choking investment and productivity, why the quantity‑of‑money story doesn’t hold when spending velocity rises, and how fiscal tools could target inflation far more precisely. Steve argues that Australia’s deeper issue is its housing‑debt machine: high house prices, bank‑driven mortgage lending, and a credit‑fuelled economy that rate hikes can’t fix and may even reinforce.

Phil Dobbie talks to Prof Steve Keen about the one modern economy that actually let its banks fail — Iceland — and what the rest of the world should have learned from it. They unpack how a tiny country ended up with banks eleven times the size of its GDP, fuelled by high interest rates, foreign borrowing, and a carry‑trade frenzy that made Iceland look less like a nation and more like a hedge fund with a flag. When the krona collapsed, imports doubled in price, inflation exploded, and the banking system imploded — yet Iceland refused to socialise the losses, letting foreign creditors take the hit while rebuilding with new domestic banks, capital controls, and a currency so cheap it sparked a tourism boom. Phil and Steve contrast that with Ireland, Greece, and Cyprus, where governments guaranteed bank debts, couldn’t devalue, and ended up trapped in austerity. The episode asks the big question: what’s the real lesson from Iceland’s crash — and why did so few countries follow it?