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Conversations With Candice

We Should Have Got a Divorce

Season 2, Ep. 1

"If there was any year we were gonna divorce, it was 2025... Any one of these days, one of us was sliding papers across this motherfucking table."


Welcome back to Chapter Two of Conversations with Candice. We aren't easing you into the theme of love and relationships, we are dropping you straight into the deep end.


This week, Candice is joined by her husband, co-producer, and partner of 14 years, Bode Aboderin for an episode that nearly didn't happen.

Triggered by a powerful listener question about what a "10-year rebuild" actually looks like, Candice and Bode pull back the curtain on the curated edits of social media. They get brutally honest about the financial, mental, and emotional fires that pushed their marriage to absolute quicksand last year. This isn't a fairy tale; it's a raw look at what happens when the scaffolding crumbles, and why choosing each other daily is the hardest, most rewarding work there is.


In this episode, we discuss:





  • OOTP (Outfit Of The Pod): Uniqlo basics vs. Issey Miyake statements.
  • The 4 Pillars of a Relationship: Balancing parental, business, intimate, and individual selves.
  • The Illusion of Stability: Why chasing a perfect balance might be holding you back.
  • Masculinity & Sacrifice: Bode opens up about quitting his corporate career for the family business and battling identity loss.
  • The "Cliff" Analogy: Are you a strategic risk-analyzer or a "jump and figure it out" operator?
  • The Power of Want over Need: Shifting away from the savior complex into true partnership.
  • The Vasectomy: Why Bode made the decision for himself, and dealing with family expectations.


Follow Candice across socials @candicebrathwaite. This episode is produced by Undeniable Productions and executive produced by Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin.


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Conversations with Candice is hosted by two-time Sunday Times bestselling author and cultural commentator Candice Brathwaite. New episodes every week.


Get in touch: contact@conversationswithcandicepodcast.com


Listen on Acast: https://shows.acast.com/conversations-with-candice


Watch on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@conversationswithcandicepod


Follow Candice:

Instagram: @candicebrathwaite

TikTok: @candicebrathwaite

If you love the show, please leave a review, it really helps others find us. Remain Unrealistic.



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  • 7. "Don't Give Him Another 20 Years"

    40:22||Season 2, Ep. 7
    "Don't you dare give another 20 years. If you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and put yourself in a good financial position once, you can make shit pop again. Never forget that."Welcome back to Chapter Two, Episode Seven of Conversations with Candice! Summer holidays are in full swing, stress levels are high, but we are back in the studio answering your most pressing questions about love, compromise, betrayal, and self-worth.📢 MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT FOR CHAPTER THREE: Starting in Chapter Three, full-length video episodes are moving exclusively behind a paywall on Substack! Free audio will always remain 30 minutes on all podcast networks (Spotify, Apple, Acast), but the full 1-hour video experience, deep dives, exclusive monthly live sessions, and private community chat will live solely on Substack.Inside the Dilemma Inbox today:Dilemma 1 (Relocating vs. Staying Put): One partner wants to move abroad while the other wants to stay in the UK. Candice and Bode break down Bode’s "Act of OR vs. Act of AND" philosophy, how couples can take turns pursuing dreams, and knowing whether a relationship is worth sacrificing for.Dilemma 2 (Discovering 20+ Years of Infidelity): A listener discovers her husband has never been faithful and feels financially terrified to start over in her 40s. Candice and Bode talk about reclaiming financial independence ("get vexed money"), breaking free from fear, and the physical/emotional risks of staying with an unfaithful partner.Dilemma 3 (Emotional Affairs & Minimizing Pain): How do you navigate betrayal when he says "it wasn't physical" and minimizes your pain? Candice addresses the trap of self-betrayal, why women stay in pigsties just to be "chosen," and why serving an ultimatum means being ready to walk away.No experts, no perfection. Just real conversations about life as we're actually living it.📚 READ & JOIN US ON SUBSTACKJoin the inner circle on Substack to catch full 1-hour video episodes in Chapter 3, exclusive articles, and private chat groups:Substack Profile: https://candicebrathwaite.substack.com🔗 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE ACROSS CHANNELSSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ifcRNeOOcHOgovuhk9i2K?si=6c87234b263c4547Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-with-candice/id1882427274Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/54f972c1-650d-401a-8418-cf499de44b24/conversations-with-candiceAcast RSS Feed: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/conversations-with-candice📱 FOLLOW CANDICE ON SOCIALSInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicebrathwaiteTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@candicebrathwaite🎬 PRODUCTION NOTES & CREDITSProduced by: Undeniable ProductionsExecutive Produced by: Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin
  • 6. Am I Going To Die Alone?

    46:09||Season 2, Ep. 6
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  • 5. Your Mother Dosen't Have To Love You

    33:17||Season 2, Ep. 5
    "Who said a mother's love was fundamental? Preach to me, because we are learning together. What if, before they were our mothers, they were just broken girls and women themselves?" Welcome back to Chapter Two, Episode Five of Conversations with Candice! This season is all about love and relationships, but today we are widening the lens completely. We aren't just talking about romantic partnerships; we are honoring the massive emotional weight of parental wounds, family dynamics, and the grueling, necessary process of saving ourselves. Candice and co-producer Uncle Bode return to the chamber to answer heavy-hitting questions from the listener inbox. How do you stop letting the ghosts of your past dictate your present, and how do you find comfort in quiet places when you've been conditioned to run on pure chaos? Inside the Dilemma Inbox today:Dilemma 1: A well-known couple of 30 years (with six grown children!) wants to start a podcast about their real marriage struggles but is paralyzed by the fear of public judgment. Candice and Bode break down the core difference between the 'fear of knowing' and the 'fear of judging,' and why you shouldn't roll in the mud with the pigs. Dilemma 2 (The Mother Wound): Going 'no-contact' with a mother is the healthiest decision, yet why does peace feel so terrifyingly unfamiliar? Candice digs deep into her own 8-year journey of no-contact, detailing how seeking chaos is actually letting your abuser 'get you twice,' and challenging the societal narrative of 'unconditional maternal love.' The 'Lucky Bag' of Life: Rebuilding your identity and self-worth block by block when you were only given the gift of life—nothing more, nothing less. Bode’s Take on Universal Approval: Choosing to make moves that let you sleep soundly at night, accepting that not everyone is built to understand or support your path. No experts, no perfection. Just real conversations about life as we're actually living it. 📚 READ & CONNECT ON SUBSTACKJoin the inner circle on Substack for deep-dive articles, essays, and community discussions:Substack Profile: https://candicebrathwaite.substack.com🔗 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE ACROSS CHANNELSSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ifcRNeOOcHOgovuhk9i2K?si=6c87234b263c4547Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-with-candice/id1882427274Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/54f972c1-650d-401a-8418-cf499de44b24/conversations-with-candiceAcast RSS Feed: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/conversations-with-candice📱 FOLLOW CANDICE ON SOCIALSInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicebrathwaiteTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@candicebrathwaite🎬 PRODUCTION NOTES & CREDITSProduced by: Undeniable Productions Executive Produced by: Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin
  • 4. "I Don't Want To Want Things"

    01:06:38||Season 2, Ep. 4
    "I don't want to want things. I need to create space in my head, and not wanting is a way to create space in your head and find peace... If I don't know it exists, it doesn't exist."Welcome back to Chapter Two, Episode Four of Conversations with Candice! This season is all about love and relationships, but today we are pivoting entirely into our relationship with ourselves, our ambitions, and the toxic, relentless pace of the digital world. Candice is throwing out the cue cards to welcome a true internet pioneer, fashion icon, and accidental founder to the studio: the incredible Freddie Harrel.For years, Freddie was that girl, the baseline framework for UK fashion blogging, a Pinterest favourite, and one of only 50 Black women globally to raise over $1 million in venture capital to scale her startup hair brand, Rad Swan.But behind the Vogue headlines and the high-profile retail deals was a high-stakes ecosystem of investor calls, supply chain nightmares, hyperemesis, and an relentless digital pace that her nervous system simply wasn't built to survive.In this beautifully raw, transparent conversation, Freddie and Candice pull back the curtain on the "Girl Boss" illusion. They dive deep into the reality of Sunday night panic attacks, why your body will always make the final decision when a space no longer serves you, the hidden operational impact of Apple’s iOS 14 privacy updates, and the incredible liberation that comes with hopping off the career train, taking the bus, and choosing mental clarity over public validation.Inside this episode:The "ASOS Freddie" & Blogging Era: Looking back at a time when the internet felt smaller and communities felt real.The Venture Capital Toll: What happens holistically to your identity, mental health, and spirit when you scale a public startup.Deconditioning from "Productivity": Rewiring your brain to choose being over constant achieving.Shedding Outfits for Clicks: Candice shares her personal wardrobe shift and why she stopped dressing for the streets' algorithm.The Failed $1M+ Celebrity Deal: Freddie reveals the untold story of signing a massive US star and how she finally found peace when the deal fell through.No experts, no perfection. Just real conversations about life as we're actually living it.📚 READ & CONNECT ON SUBSTACKJoin the inner circle on Substack for deep-dive articles, essays, and community discussions:Substack Profile: https://candicebrathwaite.substack.com🔗 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE ACROSS PLATFORMSSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ifcRNeOOcHOgovuhk9i2K?si=6c87234b263c4547Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-with-candice/id1882427274Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/54f972c1-650d-401a-8418-cf499de44b24/conversations-with-candiceAcast Feed: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/conversations-with-candice📱 FOLLOW THE GUESTFreddie Harrel Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freddieharrel/📱 FOLLOW CANDICEInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicebrathwaiteTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@candicebrathwaite🎬 PRODUCTION CREDITSProduced by: Undeniable ProductionsExecutive Produced by: Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin
  • 3. You Are A Single Mother (And He's Taking The Piss)

    47:16||Season 2, Ep. 3
    "I'm gonna need you to respect the want like it's a need. The way you need to breathe is the way you need to get to your knitting class. Because as women with busy lives, it's very easy to not respect the want... and when you disrespect the want, one day the want is gonna come down the road and fling your head back and disrespect you."Welcome back to Episode Three of Chapter Two of Conversations with Candice. This season is all about love and relationships, and let's be completely for real, the listener boxes are absolutely scalping me. Candice is back on a strict school pick-up time crunch today, but we are holding absolutely nothing back as we unpack four massive, deeply layered listener dilemmas.From analyzing our own vibrations to refusing early compromise in the dating pool, today we challenge standard societal milestones and talk about what happens when boundaries must stand on business. Co-producer Bode also steps out from behind the monitor to offer an essential patriarchal perspective on dating expectations, financial goalposts, and separating parental duties from relationship breakdowns.Inside the Dilemma Inbox today:Dilemma 1: Should you wait until your life is perfect or you’ve officially "arrived" to start dating? Candice and Bode break down the toxic moving goalposts created by social media timelines.Dilemma 2: What does it mean when a nightlife "big dog" plays the perfect partner on date one but hits you with breadcrumbs and slow replies by date three? Unpacking the psychology of early dating compromises.Dilemma 3: A 39-year-old neurodivergent mother of three manages the entire emotional and physical workload alone, only for her 50-year-old non-committal partner to claim her independence is a "red flag." Candice issues an emergency reality check, and Bode drops a firm boundary line regarding fatherhood.Dilemma 4: Navigating a 40-year marriage when love remains but intimacy is completely dead.No experts, no perfection. Just real conversations about life as we're actually living it.📚 READ & CONNECT ON SUBSTACKJoin the inner circle on Substack for deep-dive articles, essays, and community discussions:Substack Profile: https://candicebrathwaite.substack.com🔗 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBESpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ifcRNeOOcHOgovuhk9i2K?si=6c87234b263c4547Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-with-candice/id1882427274Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/54f972c1-650d-401a-8418-cf499de44b24/conversations-with-candiceAcast Feed: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/conversations-with-candice📱 FOLLOW CANDICEInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicebrathwaiteTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@candicebrathwaite🎬 PRODUCTION CREDITSProduced by: Undeniable ProductionsExecutive Produced by: Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin
  • 2. The Men Don't Want to Work

    39:14||Season 2, Ep. 2
    "Respect the want like it's a need. The way you need to breathe is the way you need to get toyour class. Because as women with busy lives, it's very easy to not respect the want... and whenyou disrespect the want, one day it’s gonna come down the road and fling your head back anddisrespect you."Bob’s your uncle if you’ve got an uncle called Bob! Welcome back to Episode Two of ChapterTwo of Conversations with Candice. This season is all about love and relationships, and todayCandice is flying solo in the studio to tackle three incredibly raw, layered, and jaw-droppinglistener dilemmas.But before unlocking the inbox, today's episode starts with a heavy heart. Candice pays tributeto the legendary Kanya King OBE, founder of the MOBO Awards, who recently passed awayfrom colon cancer. In honour of Kanya’s memory, maternal spirit, and legacy, we are shining amassive light on the life-saving work of Black Women Rising, a charity dedicated to supportingBlack women navigating cancer care. Please see the links below to support, donate, orvolunteer.Inside the Dilemma Inbox today:Dilemma 1: What do you do when you're with an older man who refuses to work a 9-to-5 while you raise three dependent children? Candice breaks down how to slowly, safely pull your hand out of the lion's mouth.Dilemma 2: Unpacking the trauma of a 14-year marriage to a deadbeat, narcissistic ex who is currently weaponising your children and sending inappropriate messages. We talk about alignment, vibrations, and setting radical boundaries through third-party communication.Dilemma 3: How to completely rediscover your individual identity and independence after 18 years of being solely relationship centred and mother-focused.No experts, no perfection. Just real conversations about life as we're actually living it.SUPPORT BLACK WOMEN RISING Please support the incredible work being done for Black women navigating cancer:• Website: https://blackwomenrisinguk.org• Donate or Volunteer: https://blackwomenrisinguk.org/donateCONNECT WITH CANDICESubstack (Deep-Dive Articles & Community): https://substack.com/@candicebrathwaiteInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicebrathwaiteTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@candicebrathwaitePRODUCTION CREDITS• Produced by: Undeniable Productions• Executive Produced by: Candice Brathwaite Aboderin and Bode Aboderin
  • 10. Get off of the hamster wheel!

    39:11||Season 1, Ep. 10
    It's the final episode of chapter one of Conversations with Candice, and what a ride it's been. Before we close this chapter, Candice covers everything from the show's upcoming season break and how you can now join the conversation in Chapter Two, to answering your listener questions live for the very first time.In this episode, Candice tackles:Manifestation - why you probably don't believe in yours yet, and how to fix thatFriendship trauma - the uncomfortable truth about seeking closureThe hamster wheel vs. true evolution - and how Candice finally reached contentmentShe also reflects on why chapter one was never about transforming in 10 weeks and why the real rebuild takes years, not episodes.Chapter Two is coming, and the theme is… Love and relationships.! Get ready.Want to be part of the conversation? Send your questions or voice notes to: contact@conversationswithcandicepodcast.comConversations with Candice is produced by Undeniable Productions.
  • 9. Stop Snagging, Start Living

    31:45||Season 1, Ep. 9
    In this penultimate episode of Chapter One, Candice is calling out the one thing keeping you from moving into the life you've been building, perfectionism.Using the metaphor of a house that's been renovated but never moved into, Candice breaks down why "snagging" (obsessively nitpicking every last detail of your life’s rebuild) is really just procrastination wearing a designer outfit. She shares her own experience - from the early days of this very podcast launching with sound only coming out of one ear, to the nine episodes it took to finally get blackout blinds - as proof that you learn by doing, not by waiting until everything is perfect.This episode covers:Why perfectionism is a safety net, not a standardHow to know when enough is enough, on your own termsThe guilt of silence after chaos and why calm feels so foreignPracticing completion over perfectionHow to celebrate wins without immediately moving the goalpostsCandice's reminder this week: You don't need to fix your life in order to feel like you deserve to live in it.Note: After next week's Episode 10, Conversations with Candice is taking a 3–4 week break. Use the time to sit with everything from this chapter and actually move in.Follow Candice: @candicebrathwaite (never braithwaite) across all socials.