Beyond the numbers: Articulating the true value of financial advice

RecoursesModen‘Ace Your Annual Review’ - Downloadable guideHumansing money - fortnightly newsletter'Finesse your first meeting' - Mentoring programmeCommunicate for Impact Course - Writing cohort for advisersThe Kinder Reminder fortnightly newsletterWhat if the biggest factor in your success as a financial adviser isn’t your technical expertise, but how well you listen? In this episode, I sit down with Melissa Kidd, communications expert, coach, and founder of Motem, to explore the overlooked skill at the heart of powerful advice: meaningful conversation.With a background in psychology, coaching, and NLP, Melissa shares practical tools to help advisers shift from presenting information to creating impact - by listening deeply, asking better questions, and understanding the emotional side of money. From finessing the first meeting to running better annual reviews, Melissa explains why emotions run high when talking about money, and how advisers can create safety, connection, and clarity by mastering the art of listening and asking the right questions. We explore how to dissolve jargon, build trust faster, and use proactive communication to turn avoiders into advocates.Top 8 TakeawaysOpen Strong: Begin every meeting by asking, “What would make this a valuable use of your time?” - a powerful question that invites co-creation and sets the tone for trust.The First Meeting Is Critical: Emotions run high, and clients often feel a power imbalance. Your job isn’t to impress - it’s to settle minds, listen deeply, and humanise the conversation.Clients Define Value: Advisers often default to showcasing technical skill. But real value is defined by the client - feeling understood, making smart decisions, and knowing what ‘enough’ looks like.Silence Isn’t Awkward, It’s Powerful: Many advisers fear silence. But space invites deeper thinking and reflection. Listen to understand, not to respond.Ask 'What' Not 'Why': “What led you to come and see an adviser like me today?” invites insight without defensiveness. ‘Why’ can feel intrusive.Scale for Confidence: Use a simple 1–10 scale to ask, “How confident are you feeling about your financial situation?” Revisit over time to track emotional and financial progress.Reframe Annual Reviews: Shift from “annual review” to “progress planning meeting” - clients are more likely to attend when it feels forward-focused and purposeful.Don’t Sell, Start a Conversation: When networking, your goal isn’t to close. It’s to connect. Focus on being memorable, relatable, and curious. The real opportunities often come later, over coffee - not in the room. Great PhrasesThe first meeting is all about creating safety, not showcasing expertiseIt’s not about the facts and figures. It’s about uncovering motivations and needs.If they only come to you for performance, they’ll leave you for performance.Money is emotional. If we ignore that, we miss the heart of the conversation.

In this episode, Scott speaks with James Woodfall - a previous SJP Partner, coach, and co-author of The Heart of Finance - about the transformational role of emotional intelligence in financial advice. James draws from his experience as a former SJP Partner and researcher (a Pracademic!) to explain how advisers can better connect with clients, improve outcomes, and future-proof their role in a world increasingly shaped by AI. The conversation ranges from defining emotional intelligence and its practical components, to tailoring communication styles, managing difficult conversations, and overcoming compassion fatigue. You’ll walk away with science-backed tools, real-life examples, and tactical strategies to strengthen client relationships and enhance your personal performance. Top 10 TakeawaysClients Value Time & Trust, Not Just Numbers: Clients seek advice because they lack time or knowledge. Value lies in saving them from mistakes - not just in performance.EQ Is a High-Performance Skill: Emotional intelligence strongly correlates with increased sales, retention, and referrals. It's not soft. It's strategic.EQ Can and Should be Measured: Use self-reporting, ability-based, or scenario-based tools. What gets measured improves.AI Can Simulate Empathy But Can’t Feel It: Artificial empathy mimics emotion, but only humans offer genuine understanding. Your edge is emotional connection.Basic Emotions Are Predictable. Learn Them: Emotions like fear, anger, and sadness have clear triggers and behaviours. Understanding them helps you manage client reactions and build trust.Trust Grows When You Notice Feelings: Ignoring emotions breaks rapport. Attunement—"I sense something’s off, shall we pause?" - strengthens relationships.Mirror, Don’t Flatten, Emotions: During tough conversations, match emotional intensity at 80%. It shows empathy and helps clients feel heard.Tailor Your Language to How Clients Think: Segment clients by thinking style: Logical thinkers want data; emotional thinkers want to feel safe. Their language gives them away.Self-Reflection Is a Superpower: Build 10 minutes post-meeting to ask: What went well? What could I improve? What actions will I take? Continuous improvement starts here.Fee Resistance Is an Emotional Cue: Be assertive and empathic. “Expensive compared to what?” reframes the conversation around value, not cost. Empathise, but don’t apologise. Great Phrases“When we pay careful attention to the emotions of others, trust grows.”“AI cannot replicate the human connection.”“It’s not just about tailoring advice -it’s about tailoring the conversation.”“Pay attention to people’s words to understand if they are more logical or more emotional thinkers.”“Segment clients by communication needs.”“People like people who are like themselves.”“Compassion fatigue can affect your performance.”“Be assertive and stand your ground in fee discussions.”Resources James's websiteTraining courses Heart of Finance bookfree digital copyJames LinkedIn

In this deeply human conversation, Jeremy Askew and Suzan Issa from Town Close Financial Planning join us to share their heartfelt philosophy: "Serve, don’t sell." Together, they explore what it truly means to create value for clients, by listening deeply, shifting mindsets, and focusing on what really matters. From bereavement to generational transitions, Jeremy and Suzan walk us through how they meet clients at life’s most pivotal moments and help them navigate not just their money, but their meaning.We discuss how financial wellbeing is more about how it feels than what’s in the bank account, why "money dysmorphia" is on the rise, and how authentic relationships, not just technical expertise, build lasting trust. Suzan also shares their inward-facing work with the team: creating a 'no-blame, no-shame' culture where staff are encouraged to grow as humans, not just professionals.From a widow asking how to spend money once meant for two, to five-generation family engagements, to quiet reflections on what clients don’t say, this episode shows how powerful advice becomes when it is rooted in presence, empathy, and shared humanity. Top 8 TakeawaysMindset Drives Financial Wellbeing: The real transformation is emotional, not numerical. Helping clients feel secure is often more powerful than proving they are secure.“Money Made Human” is a Philosophy, Not a Slogan: Advice should feel human, relational, and grounded in empathy. Clients remember how you made them feel, not what you explained.Listening is the Real Differentiator: The deepest value comes from truly hearing clients, especially what goes unsaid. Silence often holds the biggest clues.Financial Planning is a Process of Unburdening: The first time clients speak about childhood scarcity, retirement fear, or grief is often in a planning meeting. That space alone is healing.Start Simple: “How can I help?”: Then go deeper, by asking “Why is that important to you?” something you might ask multiple times to reveal the truth.“Serve Not Sell” as a Cultural Ethos: Jeremy and Issa only work with people who want help and are willing to be helped. Fit and authenticity matter more than any sales pitch.Culture Starts From Within: Suzan’s team-building focuses on self-awareness, vulnerability, and alignment between how advisers live and how they advise. “We’re creating the lives we advise clients to have.” Great Phrases “The money is often a cover story. The real work is a change in mindset.”“You know when you’ve been truly listened to. And so do your clients.”“Serve, don’t sell.”“If you command someone’s time, you have a place in their heart.”“It’s not about the pot of money. It’s about the dream it enables.”“Qualifications get you to the front door. They don’t get you through it.”“We seek first to understand. That’s where the value lives.”“We’re not afraid to say: this isn’t the right fit.”“Money dysmorphia: when someone’s perception of their financial reality is emotionally distorted.”“Financial wellbeing is only wellbeing if it feels good to you.”Resources:Town Close Financial Planning Bereavement Support Subscribe to 'Boring but Effective newsletter

Summary:In this deeply human episode of Beyond the Numbers, Scott Stevens is joined by Brian Portnoy, author of The Geometry of Wealth and co-founder of Shaping Wealth, to explore what it truly means to live a meaningful financial life.Brian challenges traditional norms in financial advice by asking a powerful question: What if true wealth isn't about getting more, but about funding a life that actually matters to you? He introduces the concept of “funded contentment” - the ability to underwrite a life that is meaningful, and unpacks how advisers can use this idea to transform their client relationships.Drawing on behavioural finance, storytelling, and coaching psychology, Brian explains why most clients don’t need more information, they need empathy, clarity, and confidence. This conversation is a masterclass in how to show up not just as a technician, but as a guide through life’s uncertainties. If you’re ready to grow your practice by going deeper with your clients, this episode is your roadmap.Top 10 TakeawaysTrue Wealth Is Funded Contentment: Wealth isn’t about being rich. It’s about aligning your money with a life of meaning, purpose, and connection.The Adviser’s Role: From Expert to Guide: Great advisers are not just mechanics. They're co-pilots helping clients navigate the messy middle between money and meaning.Advice That Sticks Begins with Empathy: Human-first advice starts with self-awareness. Advisers must do their own inner work to show up fully for others.Clarity Is the Antidote to Chaos: Amid life’s uncertainty, clients crave clarity. A well-crafted plan becomes their stable foundation.Navigating the Paradox of Choice: More options don’t mean better outcomes. Advisers create value by narrowing the field, then co-creating a path forward.Planning Is the Bridge Between Goals and Purpose: Portfolios serve plans. Plans serve lives. The real work lies in helping clients live intentionally, not just retire comfortably.Clients Don’t Want More. They Want Enough: The pursuit of “more” never ends. Advisers who guide clients toward “enough” foster peace of mind and better decisions. Money Is Emotional. Start There: Money is a lightning rod for fear, hope, shame, and pride. Advisers who engage these emotions can build lasting trust.Stories Shape Our Financial Lives: We are storytellers, not calculators. Understanding a client’s money story unlocks motivation and meaning.Permission to Go Deep Starts with You: Most clients are ready for real conversations. It's advisers who need permission to move beyond the numbers. Great Phrases“True wealth is the ability to underwrite a life that is meaningful to you.”, . “Clients would rather talk about death than money. It’s an emotional lightning rod.”, “Being rich is the pursuit of more. Being wealthy is something deeper.” “Empathy is not a soft skill. It’s a power skill.”. Resources (linked)Brian's books:The Geometry of WealthHow I Invest My Moneyhttps://www.shapingwealth.com/Series of available programmes and coaching sessions: https://www.shapingwealth.com/experiences

In this episode of Beyond the Numbers, Scott Stevens sits down with Claire Trott, Divisional Director of Retirement and Holistic Planning at SJP and Director of Technical Connection. Widely recognised as one of the UK’s leading experts on pensions and retirement planning, Claire has spent years simplifying the complexities of SIPPs, tax planning, and regulatory changes. She is a trusted voice in both national and trade press, providing clear, insightful commentary on some of the most pressing issues in retirement planning today. In this candid and thought-provoking conversation, Claire shares her journey into financial services and the passion that drives her to help clients navigate complex pension decisions. She discusses the true value of financial advice - building confidence and clarity for clients, and why cutting through technical jargon is essential. Her approach centres on making financial concepts accessible without oversimplifying, always tailoring explanations to each client’s level of understanding. The discussion covers everything from the power of cash flow modelling and the importance of human connection, to the latest pension legislation changes and the fine balance between regulatory compliance and client trust. Packed with valuable insights and practical advice, Claire’s expertise offers a masterclass for advisers looking to enhance their approach and better support their clients.  Key Takeaways:The value of advice is giving clients confidence that they are going to get there, clearly explaining how.De-bunk technical jargon - explain key concepts simply (without dumbing down), tailoring language to fit the client’s level of understanding.It is not about showing off knowledge - it’s about building client confidence in their financial future and providing peace of mind.Cashflow modelling is a powerful, visual tool that should be used to help clients understand their financial trajectory.Always check for understanding after explaining something complex.Walk clients through the value you have added, particularly when optimising tax.The emotional support advisers provide is worth so much more than money. Great phrases: “The less tax you pay, the longer your money will last”.“Once it’s gone, it’s gone forever” in reference to annual tax allowances.“Be proactive with clients, rather than reactive”. Engage clients with conversation starters.“We have over 50 specialists” in reference to the team that sits behind Technical Connection.“We have experts that shape Policy”. Resources: Access Techlink: Techlink Professional - Knowledge HomeTax Health Check: Tax Health CheckPensions learning on the House App SJP | SearchNavigating annuities and Inheritance Tax https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news/claire-trott-navigating-annuities-and-inheritance-tax/ 

What do entrepreneurs really need from a financial adviser?In this episode of Beyond the Numbers, we’re joined by Alan Smith - CEO of Capital Asset Management, co-host of TRAP: The Real Adviser Podcast, and host of Bulletproof Entrepreneur - to explore what it truly means to deliver advice that resonates with business owners.Alan shares how he positions financial advice not just as a service, but as a strategic relationship - one that begins with a simple 15-minute “coffee call” and unfolds into a human-first onboarding journey built on trust, clarity, and collaboration.We talk about: Why most entrepreneurs don’t need more information. The need the right questions.The value of content in attracting the right clients and repelling the wrong onesHis “3 Ps” frameworkThe inspiration behind Bulletproof Entrepreneur and the client stories that stickHow to help clients discover their “number” - and why it changes everything. If you're curious how content, clarity, and process can elevate the client experience, and how great advice helps entrepreneurs shift from working in their business to intentionally designing a life beyond it, this episode is packed with insights on how to articulate your value in a way that truly connects. Top TakeawaysAdvice Starts with Understanding, Not NumbersIt’s not about products or projections - it’s about asking better questions, listening deeply, and uncovering what really matters.Entrepreneurs Don’t Need More Information. They Need ClarityEntrepreneurs face complex, often conflicting priorities. Your role is to simplify, clarify, and create a strategic path forward.The Power of Niche PositioningAdvisers who specialise in a well-defined niche, like entrepreneurs, are better equipped to solve real problems and communicate their value effectively.Content Is a MagnetThoughtful content - podcasts, blogs, social media - attracts aligned clients and naturally filters out poor fits.The 15-Minute Coffee Call Is a Game-ChangerA short, no-pressure conversation builds trust, sets expectations, and ensures alignment before moving forward.Process Builds ConfidenceAlan’s onboarding journey - from Discovery to Blueprint to Welcome - creates clarity and connection from day one.Help Clients Discover Their ‘Number’Many entrepreneurs reinvest everything into their business. Helping them define their number gives purpose and direction to the plan.Begin with the End in MindEntrepreneurs don’t always sell, but they want options. Advisers who help them think about legacy, freedom, and life after exit add deep value.Great phrases“The value of financial advice is experiential.”“Most entrepreneurs don’t sell their business, but all of them want options.”“The portfolio is in service to the plan.”“Everyone should have 3 great client stories.”Resources:Bulletproof Entrepreneur – Spotify link herePhil Bray Episode - Spotify link here