{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/e421d786-ec36-4148-aa99-7a3b2928a779/68f8e3318f0e8b0d90ca789b?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"Neil Shubin: defender of American science","thumbnail_width":200,"thumbnail_height":200,"thumbnail_url":"https://open-images.acast.com/shows/62e286a934d4d9fe5e874247/1761140944920-1c4fdbd8-4ce6-4beb-aafc-d23494e58176.jpeg?height=200","description":"<p>Two decades ago, Neil Shubin discovered a <a href=\"https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2006/04/06/a-fish-out-of-water?utm_campaign=a.io&amp;utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&amp;utm_source=babbage&amp;utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&amp;utm_term=sa.listeners\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">fish-like fossil</a> which transformed scientists’ understanding of how animals transitioned out of the sea. In this episode, Prof Shubin tells us about hunting for fossils at Earth’s extremes and how he is gearing up for another big challenge: taking the reins of America’s National Academy of Sciences. In his telling, <a href=\"https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/05/21/trumps-attack-on-science-is-growing-fiercer-and-more-indiscriminate?utm_campaign=a.io&amp;utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&amp;utm_source=babbage&amp;utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&amp;utm_term=sa.listeners\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">American science</a> is in a “<a href=\"https://www.economist.com/leaders/2025/05/22/magas-assault-on-science-is-an-act-of-grievous-self-harm?utm_campaign=a.io&amp;utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&amp;utm_source=babbage&amp;utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&amp;utm_term=sa.listeners\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">dark age</a>”. Why, then, is he so optimistic?</p><p><br></p><p>Host: Alok Jha, <em>The Economist</em>’s science and technology editor. Guest: Professor Neil Shubin of the University of Chicago and the author of “Ends of the Earth”.</p><p><br></p><p><em>Transcripts of our podcasts are available via </em><a href=\"http://economist.com/podcasts\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>economist.com/podcasts</em></a><em>.</em></p><p><br></p><p><em>Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—</em><a href=\"https://subscribenow.economist.com/podcasts-plus\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>subscribe to Economist Podcasts+</em></a><em>.</em></p><p><br></p><p><em>For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our </em><a href=\"https://myaccount.economist.com/s/article/What-is-Economist-Podcasts\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>FAQs page</em></a><em> or watch </em><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gczo71bg1uY\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>our video </em></a><em>explaining how to link your account.</em></p>","author_name":"The Economist"}