{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/9a03fe9e-1ff0-4dcc-b3f6-50bd1f016ea4/e03496a0-b288-467e-b729-dddb920a22e7?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"American Fascism: Then and Now","thumbnail_width":200,"thumbnail_height":200,"thumbnail_url":"https://open-images.acast.com/shows/6195701f2eacc3a36070252a/619570bccb3c660012e3cf71.jpg?height=200","description":"<p>David and Helen talk with historian Sarah Churchwell about the origins, uses and abuses of the idea of American fascism.&nbsp;Where does American fascism come from?&nbsp;Does it follow a European model or is it something exceptional?&nbsp;What role do white supremacy and anti-Semitism play in its development?&nbsp;How close has it got to power?&nbsp;Plus we ask the big question for now: Does it make sense to call Trump a fascist?</p><p><br></p><p>Talking Points:&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>Trump’s decision to hold a rally in Tulsa on 19 June is an act of clear provocation to African Americans, especially at this moment.&nbsp;</p><ul><li>19 June 1865 was the day the last slaves were emancipated, two years after the Emancipation Proclamation.</li><li>The symbolic deferral, the fact that white people were actively denying black people full rights and citizenship, is what Juneteenth came to represent.&nbsp;</li><li>Tulsa is where the worst race riot in American history occurred in 1921. The white population of Tulsa descended on a thriving black community.</li><li>The Trump campaign was forced to move the rally a day. It will happen on 20 June.</li></ul><p><br></p><p>Is fascism the right word for what has happened—and is happening in America?&nbsp;</p><ul><li>The second Klan rose between 1915 and 1922.</li><li>The commentariat at the time pointed to Mussolini and fascism to explain the Klan’s resurgence.</li><li>Hitler looked at the US and took aspects, including the legal institutionalisation of white supremacy, especially in the South, as an inspiration.&nbsp;</li><li>But there is something quite specific about European fascism in the 1920s that has to do with the fallout of the First World War.</li></ul><p><br></p><p>Fascism is ultra-nationalism. It has to be different in every country: it’s highly situational, highly historicized.&nbsp;</p><ul><li>It can be hard to pin down because each iteration takes its own form.</li><li>Is it historically accurate to call the present moment fascist? Is it useful?</li><li>Is calling Trump a fascist too comforting? Does it keep us from seeing the reasons why he won?</li><li>Is it useful to think about American nativist, conspiratorial, racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic gorups as being recognizably fascist going back in time?&nbsp;</li></ul><p><br></p><p>Mentioned in this Episode:&nbsp;</p><ul><li><a href=\"https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/blog/2020/212-the-15th-and-the-19th\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sarah and TP American Histories on the 15th and the 19th amendment</a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/547/54710/the-anatomy-of-fascism/9780141014326.html\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Robert Paxton, <em>The Anatomy of Fascism</em></a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-plot-against-america/philip-roth/9781529110814\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Philip Roth, <em>The Plot Against America</em></a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.waterstones.com/book/it-cant-happen-here/sinclair-lewis/9780241310663\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sinclair Lewis, <em>It Can’t Happen Here</em></a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/blog/2020/250-what-just-happened-at-the-new-york-times\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jonathan Shanin on Tom Cotton’s op ed</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p>Further Learning:&nbsp;</p><ul><li><a href=\"https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/blog/2018/123-america-first\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sarah on TP: America First?&nbsp;</a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/21/end-of-the-american-dream-the-dark-history-of-america-first\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sarah on the dark history of America First</a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.waterstones.com/book/behold-america/sarah-churchwell/9781408894774\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Sarah’s book, <em>Behold America</em></a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/16/juneteenth-independence-holiday-what-you-need-to-know\" rel=\"noopener...","author_name":"David Runciman and Catherine Carr"}