This week it's just Melissa and Esther — no guest, just the two of them, picking up a thread left over from last week's conversation about ambition: what were they actually chasing when they started Pok Pok, and is it still what they want?
Is founder guilt just parent guilt with a business attached to it? Can you really measure balance by the week instead of the day? And where's the line between setting a high bar for yourself as a leader and never actually clocking out?
Melissa and Esther get honest about what the company costs them and what it gives back — including the guilt they carry toward each other, and whether each of them feels like she's holding up her half. They talk about protecting weekends, running a company split between Toronto and Belgium, missing soccer games, and the Dr. Becky "fill up your cup" trick for leaving your kids before a trip. It's a candid look at what founders don't say out loud, and why neither of them calls being one "golden handcuffs."
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