Greg Allen has spent his career where AI meets national security. He wrote the landmark 2017 report on AI for the US intelligence community, served as Director of Strategy and Policy at the Pentagon's Joint AI Center and now runs Decision Tree Research. He argues we are already past the point of no return: bombing every data centre on earth would not get rid of AI now.
Greg and I discuss the OpenAI model that hacked its way out of its own test environment and then hacked Hugging Face to steal the answers, why Anthropic went back through its logs and found the same thing had happened to them, why nobody can explain how these systems actually work and why the big five AI companies now spend an Apollo moon programme every ten months.
But the hardest part is what comes next. Greg walks through the report that a frontier model autonomously hacked the NSA's most secure servers in hours, why the CIA director calls that a digital nuclear weapon, why America's lead over China is a month rather than a year and why the number of experts you need to build a bioweapon may be heading towards zero.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 - It Escaped, Then It Hacked Hugging Face
00:04:50 - The Incident OpenAI Didn't See Coming
00:08:22 - They Know 3% Of Why It Works
00:10:30 - Golden Gate Claude
00:12:19 - Why You Don't Want This Flying Your Plane
00:16:56 - Stuxnet And The Virus That Copied Itself
00:21:15 - The Dark Corners Of The Training Data
00:26:58 - From Blue Origin To The Pentagon
00:28:34 - A 20% Chance, And We Ship It Anyway
00:33:55 - Building A Football Club In Four Weeks
00:36:28 - Ten Times Better Every Two Years
00:44:56 - Nuke Them Today
00:49:28 - It Hacked The NSA In A Matter Of Hours
00:53:09 - What A Cyber First Strike Looks Like
00:58:43 - Why China Gives Its Models Away Free
01:03:11 - America's Lead Is A Month, Not A Year
01:11:56 - From Thousands Of Experts To Zero
01:19:51 - The Cuban Missile Crisis Lesson
01:26:48 - What Happened To 22 Million Horses
01:31:41 - What Do Our Kids Do Now?
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CONTACT PETE
› Website – http://petermccormack.com
› Feedback – https://www.petermccormack.com/contact
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CONNECT WITH GREG ALLEN
› Decision Tree Research – https://decisiontreeresearch.com/
› The AI Power Podcast – https://decisiontreeresearch.com/podcast
› X/Twitter – https://x.com/Gregory_C_Allen
SPONSORS
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LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE
› Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/40ruY9K
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FILMED BY CURTIS TAYLOR
› https://www.curttaylor.co.uk/
EDITED BY CONOR MCCORMACK
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