{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/68d23c3e7d53f4238e89c27b/6ae085b9b0fbf8c5af2335f3?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"Arvid van Oorschot & Jelle Drok - Building an AI-Native Law Firm From Scratch","thumbnail_width":200,"thumbnail_height":200,"thumbnail_url":"https://open-images.acast.com/shows/68d23c3e7d53f4238e89c27b/1793103846159-c9aebc15-b24c-4f2d-bfc6-3def765ac40c.jpeg?height=200","description":"<p>What does an AI-native law firm look like if you build it from scratch today? Arvid van Oorschot and Jelle Drok left their partnerships to find out.</p><p><br></p><p>Both spent more than twenty years litigating patent and technology cases at the top of the Dutch market. Jelle was a partner at Freshfields, Arvid at the IP boutique Vondst. In September 2026 they opened Driven Lawyers in Amsterdam, which they call the first AI-native law firm in the Netherlands.</p><p><br></p><p>They built their own AI drafting software and work with fixed fees instead of the billable hour. The lawyer stays in the driver&#39;s seat. They do the thinking first, then AI writes the first draft. Their experience sits in about a hundred frameworks, built the way a senior lawyer instructs a junior.</p><p><br></p><p>Arvid and Jelle explain how you put a fixed fee on complex litigation, why they let AI attack their own arguments, and who trains the juniors in an AI-native law firm. Jelle also makes a bold prediction about the rest of the market.</p><p><br></p><p>You&#39;ll learn</p><p><br></p><ul><li>why drafting was the first thing they took out of the old law firm model</li><li>how you set a fixed fee for litigation when the other side can file a counterclaim</li><li>what the under-the-shower moment is, and why they bring it forward</li><li>how a hundred frameworks turn twenty years of experience into instructions for AI</li><li>why one bad argument can ruin a whole case</li><li>how juniors learn in a firm built on the old guild model of master and apprentice</li></ul><p><br></p><p>Chapters</p><p><br></p><p>(00:00) Introduction</p><p>(02:35) Clients want to kill the billable hour</p><p>(05:54) Building an AI-native law firm from scratch</p><p>(07:46) Creation, production and the shower moment</p><p>(11:09) A fixed fee for complex litigation</p><p>(17:12) An AI-native law firm with a human motto</p><p>(18:49) Talking to investors about a scalable model</p><p>(22:10) Twenty years of experience in frameworks</p><p>(26:26) Vibe coding the MVP with Claude</p><p>(30:42) Zeno&#39;s question: the hardest part to put in a framework</p><p>(34:50) How juniors learn in an AI-native law firm</p><p>(40:39) Better work at a lower price</p><p>(43:50) The devil&#39;s advocate tool</p><p>(45:42) Leaving the partnership</p><p>(48:39) Why every law firm will work like this</p><p>(50:43) Advice for managing partners</p><p>(52:29) Own AI models and your own knowledge</p><p>(55:50) Advice for young lawyers</p><p><br></p><p>Powered by Zeno</p><p><br></p><p>This episode is powered by Zeno. Zeno&#39;s AI navigates law like a human legal professional, grounded in authoritative sources, backed by traceable citations. Visit <a href=\"https://zeno.law\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">zeno.law</a> and make deep thinking your competitive edge.</p><p><br></p><p>Legal AI Lab is a podcast by Recht in je Oor.</p><p><br></p><p>Want to advertise in this podcast? Visit <a href=\"https://rechtinjeoor.nl/adverteren\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">rechtinjeoor.nl/adverteren</a> for all options.</p>","author_name":"Recht in je Oor | Hidde Bruinsma"}