In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne V. Mühlethaler welcomes Katia Dayan Vladimirova, a senior sustainability policy expert with almost fifteen years of research experience at the intersection of fashion, policy, and social change. Katia is the founder of the Post Growth Fashion Agency, a boutique advisory service working with local and national governments and NGOs to transform how we consume and dispose of fashion. She is also the author of the Substack Post Growth Fashion, the founder of the International Research Network on Sustainable Fashion Consumption — now hosted at Yale and bringing together close to 180 researchers globally — and the founder of Well Rounded, the first plastic-free underwear brand made in Europe, with a supply chain traced all the way to cotton fields in Greece. She holds a double PhD in climate ethics and political science, and has studied and worked at institutions including the London School of Economics, MIT, ULB in Brussels, LUISS in Rome, and UNIGE in Geneva.
The conversation begins with Katia sharing her story. Anne and Katia then get into the ideas at the heart of Katia's work. She unpacks degrowth and sufficiency, making the case that the labels do these concepts a disservice, since studies show overwhelming public support for the underlying principles once they are actually explained. Applied to fashion, she is interested not in restricting creativity but in shifting how we experience clothing: through swapping, renting, repairing, community events, and a deeper relationship with what we already own. She talks about the Rule of Five, how we would each need to limit ourselves to in order to stay within the planetary boundaries aligned with the Paris Agreement's target. The pair also discuss the role of cities in managing textile waste and Katia's work with Geneva, Luxembourg, Amsterdam, and others to make sustainable fashion alternatives viable at a local level. She notes that in Geneva, only 3% of donated garments are redistributed locally; the rest enter a global stream that ends up, in large part, in open-air landfills in West Africa. Katia then shares the argument at the heart of her essay The Trojan Horse of Fashion: that the oversupply of secondhand. itself a product of fast fashion overproduction, is creating a bubble that will burst within five to ten years, forcing a major restructuring of the industry. An exceptionally knowledgeable, warm, and surprisingly joyful conversation on one of the most urgent topics of our time. Happy listening!
International Research Network on Sustainable Fashion Consumption
Well Rounded — Katia's circular underwear brand
The True Cost movie — Documentary (2014) directed by Andrew Morgan
Rana Plaza — Background on the 2013 factory collapse in Dhaka, Bangladesh
Hot Cool Institute — Berlin-based think tank; co-authors of the 2022 global fashion consumption report
The Rule of Five — Campaign inspired by the five-garment-per-year finding
Paris Agreement — The 2015 climate accord and its 1.5-degree target
Vestiaire Collective — Secondhand platform referenced by Anne
HUT / Caritas Luxembourg — One-stop sustainable fashion hub in Luxembourg
Kate Fletcher — Pioneer in sustainable fashion, featured in Katia's webinar series
Dilys Williams — Sustainable fashion academic, featured in Katia's webinar series
Jason Hickel — Degrowth scholar referenced in the conversation
Project 333 — Capsule wardrobe challenge referenced in the conversation
Gabriela Hearst — Designer referenced by Anne for her approach to materials
Satoshi Kuwata — Milan-based designer mentioned by Katia as an example of genuine creative resilience
Tim Lomas — Positive psychology professor, featured in an earlier Out of the Clouds episode,
Your Story Your Map: — a contemplative guide to help you trace the arc of your life with intention. Get it here