Are our educational systems actually built for the people who need them most? For students who are also parents, caregivers, veterans, and full-time workers, the traditional model of higher education was never designed with them in mind. And in the Black community, where those layers of responsibility are often even more pronounced. The gap between who the system was built for and who it needs to serve has real consequences.
In this conversation I sit down with Dr. Alvin McLean, clinical psychologist and dean of psychology at National University, and Cherina Shaw, PhD candidate in psychology, doula, mother of six, and homeschool parent.
We cover a lot of ground in this one, from why psychology training pipelines produce so few Black therapists, to what culturally responsive care actually looks like in practice, to one of the most important insights I have heard about worldview and how it shapes the kind of advice a person can actually receive. We also talk about where integrated physical and mental healthcare is headed and why it matters more than most people realize.
This conversation is for HR leaders, healthcare providers, therapists in training, and anyone thinking about what it means to really see the people they are trying to help.
What you'll learn in this episode:
CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS:
00:37 Dr. McLean on why he focused his career on Black mental health
04:10 Cherina's path to a psychology PhD
07:50 Why psychology programs produce so few Black therapists and what the system gets wrong
08:09 HBCUs, state-by-state licensing, and the structural gap in the pipeline
11:16 National University's flexible model and why 70% of their students are people of color
13:22 Starting the pipeline earlier: building toward psychology careers at the elementary level
14:36 The problem with taking one multicultural competency class and calling it done
16:00 How the doctoral program at National University structures a full year of multicultural training
17:27 Implicit bias training in hospitals and why it matters for patient outcomes
18:59 Gen Z and therapy: more acceptance, but are they doing the work?
20:44 The Amazon generation and the demand for instant results
21:41 Young Black men being open about emotions on reality TV and what that signals
22:24 The gap between checking the therapy box and real internal change
23:25 The future of integrated physical and mental healthcare
25:38 Why integrated care is gaining momentum: cost data and long-term outcomes
26:11 How technology is reshaping mental health needs across generations
27:14 Intentional technology use and reclaiming mental downtime
30:38 What does culturally responsive care actually look like in practice?
31:03 Preparation, listening, partnership over task completion
33:02 Collective worldview: why prioritizing yourself can feel like betrayal
35:02 How to recognize a collective worldview through observation and conversation
38:13 Humility as the foundation of culturally competent care
39:14 Imposter syndrome, the pressure to have all the answers, and learning to let go of it
41:23 Acknowledging intersecting identities in coaching and clinical work
43:41 Prison reform: rehabilitation, for-profit prisons, and what actually works
44:50 Peer support specialists and preparing people to return to community
51:05 Final takeaways from both guests
51:25 Healing is incremental, ongoing, and that is okay
52:25 Collaborative care and leading with humility
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