In this episode, we talk with Carlo Alexander Schreurs, CISO of FrieslandCampina, about his journey of reinvention after surgery and his transition into a transformational CISO role. He advocates for moving from rigid \"zero trust\" to a more flexible \"adaptive trust\" model, better suited to digital transformation. Carlo emphasizes cultural shifts in cybersecurity, highlighting storytelling, collaboration, and psychological safety to build trust and resilience. He also stresses integrating cybersecurity with business goals, going beyond compliance to drive innovation. The episode wraps up with practical advice for CISOs on staying agile in a fast-changing landscape.
Chapters:
00:00 - 03:14 Introduction of the episode
03:15 - 06:26 Carlo reinventing himself
06:27 - 09:36 Reimagining Traditional Security
09:37 - 14:16 The Drama Triangle vs. The Winner's Triangle
14:16 - 17:41 From Zero Trust to Digital/Adaptive Trust
17:42 - 23:00 The Role of Trust and Loyalty
23:01 - 26:15 The CISO as Storyteller
26:16 - 32:55 Shifting from Risk Avoidance to Value Creation
32:56 - 43:45 Human Factors and Behavioral Insights
43:46 - 45:44 Reframing Cyber Security
45:45 - 55:34 Compliance Theater
55: 35 - 58:03 Practical Steps for Agile and Adaptable Programs
58:04 - 1:02:56 Key takeaways Jeroen & Irfaan
Resources
Drama triangle to winner triangle:
article 1: Life threw a curveball at me - on human-centric transformations
article 2: Beating the drama in Cybersecurity and Technology teams: uncovering hidden dynamics that drain energy and prohibit growth
article 3: Beating the drama in cybersecurity and IT: How to shift from drama triangle to TED and build a thriving team
article 4: Cybersecurity Transformation: The Power of Human-Centered Leadership
Storytelling: The Hidden Skill Every CISO or CIO Needs, But Few Use (On storytelling)
Other source: The Cyber Samurai—Forging a Black Belt in the Digital Dojo
Connect with Carlo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schreursc/
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Jeroen Prinse
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jprinse/
Irfaan Santoe:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/irfaansantoe/
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