{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/655bba4578d7ac0011fb4649/655bba4d78d7ac0011fb4976?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"490: Nepo Babies","description":"<p>In this episode, we ask the question: is it talent or is it nepotism? Join us as we discuss the nepo babies who are ruling pop culture, which siblings are favored or forsaken, and whose Hollywood star is set to eclipse their parents.&nbsp;</p><p><strong>MENTIONS</strong></p><ul><li>Subscribe: Note For The Audio returns this Friday! <a href=\"https://knoxandjamie.com/nepobabies\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">KnoxandJamie.com/nepobabies</a></li><li>Deep dive: <a href=\"https://www.vulture.com/the-year-of-the-nepo-baby/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">13 Nepo baby resources</a> (via Vulture) | <a href=\"https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nepo%20baby\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Urban Dictionary</a></li><li>Mentions: Mentions: <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Operation Varsity Blues</a> | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100135/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Men At Work</a>&nbsp;</li><li>Look up: <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001760/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Tori Spelling</a> (daughter to <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Spelling\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Aaron Spelling</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004988/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Colin Hanks</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000158/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Tom Hanks</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6609666/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Billie Lourd</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000402/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Carrie Fisher</a>, granddaughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001666/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Debbie Renyolds</a>)| <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1638321/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Maya Hawke</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000160/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ethan Hawke</a> and<a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000235/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"> Uma Thurman</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2654829/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Maude Apatow</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0031976/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Judd Apatow</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005182/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Leslie Mann</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005028/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Kate Hudson</a>, <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0751518/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Wyatt Russell</a> (and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005029/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Oliver</a>) (kids of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000443/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Goldie Hawn</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000621/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Kurt Russell</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miley_Cyrus\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Miley Cyrus</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Ray_Cyrus\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Billy Ray Cyrus</a>) |&nbsp;<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Shea_Jackson_Jr.\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">O’shae Jackson, junior</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001084/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ice Cube</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0424848/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dakota Johnson</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000467/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Don Johnson</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000429/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Melanie Griffith</a>) |&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2368789/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Zoë Kravitz</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Kravitz\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Lenny Kravitz</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000956/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Lisa Bonet</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001774/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ben Stiller</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005467/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jerry Stiller</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0575198/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Anne Meara</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000140/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Michael Dogulas</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000018/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Kirk Douglas</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000569/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Gwyneth Paltrow</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001100/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Blythe Danner</a>. See also: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAGa1MWnKk4\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">GP on Glee</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4960279/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Margaret Qualley</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000510/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Andie MacDowell</a>. See also: <a href=\"https://people.com/movies/rainey-qualley-lewis-pullman-red-carpet-debut-bill-pullman-andie-macdowell-kids/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Rainy Qualley and Bill Pullman’s son Lewis</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0647634/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Elizabeth Olsen</a> (sister of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary-Kate_and_Ashley_Olsen\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2391794/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dan Levy</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0506405/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Eugene Levy</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily-Rose_Depp\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Lily-Rose Depp</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000136/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Johnny Depp</a> and <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Paradis\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Vanessa Paradis</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1102577/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Elle Fanning</a> (sister of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0266824/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dakota Fanning</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000886/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Warren Beatty</a> (married to <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000906/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Annette Bening</a>, brother to <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000511/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Shirley MacLaine</a>)| <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2002649/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Dave Franco</a> (brother of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0290556/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_2\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">James Franco</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240380/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Haylie Duff</a> (sister of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240381/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Hilary Duff</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashlee_Simpson\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">&nbsp;Ashlee Simpson</a> (sister of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Simpson\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jessica Simpson</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1292661/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Luke Hemsworth</a> (brother of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1165110/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Chris</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2955013/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Liam Hemsworth</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_J\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ray J</a> (brother to <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandy_Norwood\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Brandy</a> and famous for <a href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20090901091455/http://www.nypost.com/seven/05012007/gossip/pagesix/happy_ending_pagesix_.htm\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">another thing</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Lynn_Spears\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jamie Lynn Spears</a> (sister to Britney. see also: <a href=\"https://www.tmz.com/2015/01/13/jamie-lynn-spears-knife-fight-sandwich-shop-video/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Panera Bread melee</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2584600/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Julianne Hough</a> (twin sister to <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2625538/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Derek</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solange_Knowles\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Solange Knowles</a> (sister to <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Beyoncé</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0121026/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Candace Cameron</a> (sister of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0131647/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Kirk Cameron</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0397171/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Bryce Dallas Howard</a> (daughtre of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000165/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ron Howard</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4129745/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_5\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Allison Williams</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Williams\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Brian Williams</a>) | <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0913475/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">John David Washington</a> (son of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000243/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Denzel Washington</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaden_Smith\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jaden</a> and <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Smith\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Willow Smith</a> (children of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000226/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Will Smith</a> and <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000586/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Jada Pinkett Smith</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Harry,_Duke_of_Sussex\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Prince Harry</a> | <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQqCzvlHowI\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Chet Haze</a> (<a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000158/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Tom Hanks</a>’ other son with <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001854/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Rita Wilson</a>) | <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hailey_Bieber\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Hailey Bieber</a> (daughter of <a href=\"https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000286/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">a Baldwin</a>, married to <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Bieber\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Justin Bieber</a>)</li><li>Fact check: <a href=\"https://www.huffpost.com/entry/walt-disneys-last-words-were-kurt-russell-according-to-kurt-russell_n_59002e87e4b0af6d718998fa\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Walt Disney’s last words were Patrick Swayze?</a> (or was it <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bradneuberg/status/1227676732372574208\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Kurt Russell</a>?) | <a href=\"https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illegal-antiquities-shed-light-on-a-lost-looted-ancient-city-in-ira\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Hobby Lobby guy stole ancient artifacts?</a></li><li>LOLz: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKrG_6JFlhA&amp;themeRefresh=1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">American Sniper fake baby</a></li><li>Sidebar: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv_QhoUy-xc\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Knock At The Cabin</a> trailer</li><li>As requested: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YdsUC6MtDU\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">The Usual Suspects-&nbsp;“Hand me the keys, you…”</a></li><li>Red light: <a href=\"https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/2023\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Oscar noms</a>, specifically <a href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/jan/30/race-storm-erupts-after-andrea-riseborough-best-actress-oscar-nomination-to-leslie\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Andrea Riseborough</a> (see also: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&amp;v=Na6gA1RehsU\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">TÁR</a>)</li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>BONUS SEGMENT</strong></p><p>Our Patreon supporters can get full access to this week’s The More You Know news segment. <a href=\"http://www.patreon.com/popcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Become a partner</a>. This week we discussed:</p><p><br></p><ul><li><a href=\"https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Michael B. Jordan on SNL</a></li><li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9MyW72ELq0\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Avatar 2</a> still ruling the box office&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li><a href=\"https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Feline%20Scale\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">MILFS vs. Cougars</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>GREEN LIGHTS</strong></p><ul><li>Jamie: tv series - <a href=\"https://www.peacocktv.com/watch/asset/tv/poker-face/9091855651030489112\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Poker Face</a> (Peacock) | book - <a href=\"https://amzn.to/3l2ghI8\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Maame</a> by Jessica George</li><li>Knox:&nbsp;tv series - <a href=\"https://www.peacocktv.com/watch/asset/tv/poker-face/9091855651030489112\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Poker Face</a> (Peacock)&nbsp;| podcast series- <a href=\"https://www.campsidemedia.com/shows/chameleon-s2-high-rollers\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Chameleon: High Rollers</a>&nbsp;</li></ul><p><br></p><p><a href=\"http://knoxandjamie.com/sponsors\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>SHOW SPONSORS</strong></a></p><ul><li>Peloton: Try for 30 days at <a href=\"http://onepeloton.com/home-trial\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">onepeloton.com/home-trial</a></li><li>Legacy Box: <a href=\"http://legacybox.com/POP\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Legacybox.com/POP</a>&nbsp;</li><li>ZipRecruiter: Try it for free at <a href=\"http://ziprecruiter.com/pop\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">ZipRecruiter.com/pop</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Subscribe to Episodes:</strong> <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/popcast-pop-culture-commentary/id712316884?mt=2\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes</a> | <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-popcast-2\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Android</a>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>Subscribe to our Monthly Newsletter:</strong> <a href=\"http://www.knoxandjamie.com/newsletter\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">knoxandjamie.com/newsletter</a></p><p><strong>Shop our Amazon Link:</strong> <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/shop/thepopcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">amazon.com/shop/thepopcast</a> | <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09PCM6RG7?th=1\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">this week’s featured item</a></p><p><strong>Follow Us:</strong> <a href=\"http://www.instagram.com/thepopcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Instagram</a> | <a href=\"http://www.twitter.com/popcastpod\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Twitter</a> | <a href=\"http://www.facebook.com/thepopcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Facebook</a></p><p><strong>Support Us:</strong> <a href=\"http://www.patreon.com/popcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Monthly Donation</a> | <a href=\"https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&amp;business=JTT8988U8SZSU&amp;lc=US&amp;item_name=The%20Popcast&amp;currency_code=USD&amp;bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donateCC_LG%2egif%3aNonHosted\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">One-Time Donation</a> | <a href=\"https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-popcast-shop?ref_id=6833\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Swag</a></p>","author_name":"Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden"}