What is adult PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance), and what does neurodivergent demand paralysis feel like from the inside? In this episode of F Them Fish: AuDHD for Grownups, your neurodivergent besties Callie and Jayne dive deep into the PDA cycle, burnout, and why everyday tasks can trigger a nervous system shutdown.
This podcast was created on the lands of the Ngunnawal, Wadawurrung, and Dja Dja Wurrung Peoples.
Hello, hello, and welcome to F Them Fish: AuDHD for Grownups with your neurodivergent besties, Callie Elward-Barrett and Jayne Gurton. Where we talk about neurodivergence in real adult life: work, relationships, burnout, overwhelm, identity, and all the weird little things that make you think, ‘surely it’s not just me’. We’re honest, occasionally sweary, and very much not interested in pretending to be polished.
Grab a beverage, or body double some life admin with us in your ears, and let’s get started.
PDA gets discussed constantly online, but it is often reduced to ‘not liking being told what to do’. In this episode, Callie and Jayne dig underneath that explanation. They look at what PDA feels like from the inside and what current research can and cannot tell us.
Callie walks through a proposed PDA cycle, from detecting a demand through to the nervous system’s appraisal of effort, uncertainty, safety, sensory discomfort, autonomy, and available capacity. They also discuss why avoidance can provide enough immediate relief to reinforce the pattern, even when it creates more distress later. They explore practical ways to reduce friction, including recognising personal triggers, creating safer sensory conditions, increasing clarity and certainty, protecting capacity, and resisting the idea that every struggle can be fixed by applying more pressure.
In this episode:
Timestamps
00:00 A difficult morning, parenting guilt, and trying to repair
10:55 Overwhelm and a real-life PDA segue
19:11 PDA explained: pathological demand avoidance and pervasive drive for autonomy
25:13 What research can, and cannot, currently tell us about PDA
31:06 The PDA cycle: demands, appraisal, stress, and reduced executive access
40:30 PDA paralysis, chronic illness, limited capacity, and shame
44:49 Why avoidance can temporarily help and reinforce the cycle
49:14 What might help: triggers, sensory needs, certainty, and supportive conditions
57:07 Why PDA changes with context, safety, capacity, and sensory load
01:01:19 PDA versus ODD: similarities, differences, and why neither is a choice
PDA remains a developing and contested area. This conversation combines available research discussed during recording with Callie and Jayne’s lived and professional experience. It is not medical advice, and people may understand or describe their experiences differently.
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