{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/62538867ad55de001281af36/660e7194c89815001650393a?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"A PALESTINIAN AND AN ISRAELI FATHER: “We must all stop being victims; victimhood causes the violence!”","description":"<p>Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan (peace activists with Parent’s Circle) are the two protagonists&nbsp;from Colum McCann’s&nbsp;Booker-Prize-longlisted&nbsp;book Apeirogon. Both lost their daughters to the conflict, ten years apart. Yet in spite of – or because of - this horror they became dedicated friends, or “brothers”, committed to opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestine and working with “the enemy” via Parent’s Circle, a peace group set up for parents from “both sides” who’ve lost a child.</p><p><br></p><p>I spoke to Bassam and Rami on day #169 in the conflict and they’d just come from seeing the Pope. We cover how Bassam decided to study the Holocaust while imprisoned in an Israeli jail as a teenager for seven years, why Israelis are trapped by their victimhood and how we’ve all been locked into seeing this conflict as a football game of two sides.</p><p><br></p><p>This interview is a chapter in an incredible story that involves a big-time Hollywood actor, who reached out to me while I was camping in remote Western Australia, a secondhand book find, a six-way email chain and an incredible love that reaches across history, walls and global fragmentation.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><em>NOTE: I will cover the very intersecting story of how we (the dads, Colum, the actor and I met) in the next episode.&nbsp;</em></p><p><br></p><p>SHOW NOTES</p><ul><li>Read <a href=\"https://amzn.to/4aIgTXY\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Apeirogon by Colom Mcann</a></li><li>Learn about <a href=\"https://www.theparentscircle.org/en/about_eng-2/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Parent’s Circle</a> and <a href=\"https://www.theparentscircle.org/en/contribution_eng/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">donate here</a>.</li><li>If you want a bit of extra background to this whole story, I write about it here on <a href=\"https://sarahwilson.substack.com/p/gaza-an-observably-infinite-number\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Substack</a>.</li><li>I mention Naomi Klein’s work on the role of victimhood. A good starting point is <a href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/naomi-klein-on-israels-doppelganger-politics/id1573983987?i=1000635076746\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">this podcast interview with On the Nose.&nbsp;</a></li><li>Naomi has also released <a href=\"https://naomiklein.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Israel-Palestine-and-the-Doppelganger-Effect.pdf\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">two chapters from her latest book Doppelgänger</a> for free online that cover her thesis super well.</li></ul><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my \"<a href=\"http://www.sarahwilson.com/about\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">about</a>\" page</p><p>For more such conversations subscribe to my<a href=\"https://sarahwilson.substack.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"> Substack newsletter</a>, it’s where I interact the most!</p><p>Get your copy of my book,<a href=\"https://amzn.to/3vs3tf2\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"> This One Wild and Precious Life</a></p><p>Let’s connect on<a href=\"http://www.instagram.com/_sarahwilson_\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"> Instagram</a> and <a href=\"https://click.weare8.com/zMp3/1qib7lyt\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">WeAre8</a></p>","author_name":"Sarah Wilson"}