What if the secret to better business, better parenting and better mental health was… letting go of control?
In this powerful, reflective conversation, I sit down with culture-change consultant and “buddish” thinker Jon Barnes (Pala) to talk about rewilding organisations, autonomy, depression, silent retreats, parenting, Buddhism, phones, presence and what it really means to be human.
We explore how to move from command-and-control to self-managing, autonomous teams, how tiny experiments can transform culture, and why CEOs often save two days a week when they stop making every decision.
Jon also shares openly about his dangerous depression, how a 10-day silent retreat changed his relationship with his thoughts, the difference between having anger vs being angry, and why he now calls himself “buddish”.
This episode weaves perfectly into the You Alright Mate? mission and my Five Pillars of Success, especially Presence, Balance, Authenticity and Relationships and asks how we can equip both adults and kids to sit with their emotions in a world designed to distract us.
00:00 – “You alright mate?” check-in & intro to Jon Barnes
06:15 – From traditional schooling to autonomy & a Costa Rica jungle school
15:30 – Discovering self-managed teams & a new kind of leadership
26:40 – What autonomy really looks like at work (and why CEOs gain 2 days a week)
36:20 – Culture change as small experiments & the power of atomic habits
45:05 – Rewilding organisations: the Knepp Estate metaphor & letting go of control
55:40 – Parenting, autonomy for kids & reframing failure as learning
1:05:30 – Meetings, decisions & information sharing as the heart of culture
1:15:00 – Hitting the wall: depression, burnout and calling in sick to life
1:27:30 – Inside a 10-day silent retreat: thoughts, emotions & the noisy mind
1:40:10 – Tech Monopolies, smartphones & the attention economy
1:50:20 – Teaching presence & emotional literacy to children
2:00:00 – Peak experiences, the lake moment & “this too shall pass”
2:10:10 – Being “buddish”: compassion, suffering & altered traits
2:22:50 – Top Table card question on boundaries & closing reflections
Jon Barnes is a culture-change consultant, facilitator and co-founder of Pala, helping organisations move from rigid hierarchies to more autonomous, human-centred ways of working. His work draws on ideas from rewilding, permaculture, mindfulness and Buddhist psychology, and he’s the author of books including Tech Monopolies. Jon describes himself as “buddish” not religious, but deeply influenced by Buddhist thought and the practice of mindfulness.
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👉 https://www.different-hats.co.uk/podcast
🔗 Connect with Jon Barnes
Website: https://teampala.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonbarnesdotme/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonbarnesdotme/
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Rivervale – www.rivervale.co.uk
Brown Bear Studios – https://brownbearstudios.co.uk/
Carpenter Box – https://www.carpenterbox.com/
PRODUCED BY: H2 Productions – https://h2productions.co.uk/
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