Measurement should make our work clearer, not harder. Host David Pembroke is joined by Stacey Barr, a specialist in organisational performance, measurement and evidence-based leadership, to unpack why evaluation still feels elusive in government, even when toolkits and frameworks are readily available. They discuss the hidden “missing pieces” that undermine many measurement approaches, how to strip out vague “weasel words” from strategy, and how Stacey’s PuMP methodology helps teams define results, identify credible evidence, and report performance in a way that supports better decisions. The conversation also explores the role of leadership, the reality of public accountability pressures, and where AI can (and cannot) help.
KEY POINTS
- Start with results, not activity: Be clear about the outcome you want to improve before you decide what to measure, otherwise you end up tracking busywork instead of impact.
- De-weasel your strategy language: Replace vague terms such as “quality”, “transparency” or “diversity” with plain, specific wording that everyone can interpret the same way.
- Define evidence before choosing measures: Ask what you would see, hear or observe that proves progress, then work out how to quantify that evidence.
- Report performance to reveal real signals: Move beyond traffic-light reporting and focus on patterns that show meaningful change, so you don’t overreact to noise or miss early warnings.
- Tie initiatives directly to the KPI they shift: Keep actions and results connected, so you can prove whether an initiative actually closed a performance gap.
SHOW NOTES:
● PuMP® (Performance Measurement Process): Stacey Barr’s practical methodology for performance measurement mentioned in the episode
https://www.pump.academy/
● Practical Performance Measurement (book): Book by Stacey Barr mentioned in the episode
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Practical+Performance+Measurement+Stacey+Barr
● Prove It! (book): Book by Stacey Barr mentioned in the episode
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Prove+It%21+Stacey+Barr
● Australia Centre for Evaluation (ACE): Australian Government evaluation initiative mentioned (including toolkit/library resources)
https://www.pmc.gov.au/resources/australia-centre-evaluation
● Harvard Business Review (website): Stacey notes her content has appeared on HBR’s website
https://hbr.org/
● ManageMentor (platform): Program Stacey describes as featuring her content
https://www.managementmentor.com/
● OKR Institute: Organisation mentioned in relation to the OKR Institute World Summit
https://okrinstitute.org/
● Objectives and Key Results (OKR) framework: Framework explicitly referenced (“OKRs, objectives and key results”)
https://www.whatmatters.com/faqs/okr-meaning-definition-example/
● State Library of South Australia: Organisation cited in Stacey’s case example
https://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/
● Federal Aviation Administration (FAA): Organisation cited in Stacey’s case example
https://www.faa.gov/
● info@PuMP.academy: Email Stacey provides for arranging a “discovery discussion”
mailto:info@pump.academy
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