{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/60518a52f69aa815d2dba41c/68e58ad353a5e2858fe7ddb5?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"Scaling Laws: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan","thumbnail_width":200,"thumbnail_height":200,"thumbnail_url":"https://open-images.acast.com/shows/60518a52f69aa815d2dba41c/1759873716234-ef9b1f98-f968-4543-99a3-5a5b9ef6086f.jpeg?height=200","description":"<p>David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust &amp; Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at&nbsp;<em>Lawfare</em>, to discuss the evolution of the Trust &amp; Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals.</p><p>Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast.</p><p>Read more from David:</p><ul><li>\"<a href=\"https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/08/safety-product-build-better-bots/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Why we need to make safety the product to build better bots</a>,\" from the World Economic Forum Centre for AI Excellence</li><li>\"<a href=\"https://www.techpolicy.press/learning-from-the-past-to-shape-the-future-of-digital-trust-and-safety/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Learning from the Past to Shape the Future of Digital Trust and Safety</a>,\" in Tech Policy Press</li></ul><p>Read more from Ravi:</p><ul><li>\"<a href=\"https://shows.acast.com/arbiters-of-truth/episodes/ravi-iyer-on-how-to-improve-technology-through-design\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ravi Iyer on How to Improve Technology Through Design</a>,\" from&nbsp;<em>Lawfare</em>'s&nbsp;<em>Arbiters of Truth</em>&nbsp;series</li><li>\"<a href=\"https://psychoftech.substack.com/p/regulate-value-aligned-design-not?triedRedirect=true\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Regulate Design, not Speech</a>,\" from the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://psychoftech.substack.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Designing Tomorrow</a>&nbsp;Substack&nbsp;</li></ul><p>Read more from Kevin:</p><ul><li>\"<a href=\"https://www.cato.org/blog/california-chatroom-ab-1064s-likely-constitutional-overreach\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">California in Your Chatroom: AB 1064’s Likely Constitutional Overreach</a>,\" from the Cato Institute</li></ul><p>Find <em>Scaling Laws</em> on the <a href=\"https://www.lawfaremedia.org/podcasts-multimedia/podcast/scaling-laws\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Lawfare</em> website</a>, and <a href=\"https://shows.acast.com/arbiters-of-truth\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">subscribe</a> to never miss an episode.</p><p>To receive ad-free podcasts, become a&nbsp;<em>Lawfare&nbsp;</em>Material Supporter at&nbsp;<a href=\"http://www.patreon.com/lawfare\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">www.patreon.com/lawfare</a>. You can also support&nbsp;<em>Lawfare&nbsp;</em>by making a one-time donation at&nbsp;<a href=\"https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute</a>.</p>","author_name":"The Lawfare Institute"}