In this episode:
“A big part of finding your voice is being willing to be vulnerable and honest.”
Jessica Schwartz speaks with filmmaker, artist, and writer James Spooner about Black punk, belonging, vulnerability, and the complicated work of finding—and trusting—one’s own voice. Beginning with Spooner’s experiences as one of few Black punks in the Southern California desert and later within New York punk and hardcore scenes, the conversation considers what punk can make possible while remaining attentive to racism, exclusion, and inequality within the scenes themselves.
James reflects on the teenage manifesto and organizing project Earthwell, the unexpected afterlives of DIY ideas, and the making and continuing relevance of his documentary Afro-Punk. Moving through The High Desert and Black Punk Now, Jessica and James discuss racial ambiguity, passing, vulnerability, family, historical erasure, and the ways personal storytelling can create recognition across experiences without collapsing their differences.
The conversation also turns toward Black contributions to rock and punk history, intergenerational experiences of belonging, and the complicated relationship between underground and mainstream culture. Tequila Mockingbird joins the conversation to reflect on punk preservation and her work developing the Punk Museum, opening a broader discussion about archives, institutions, access, and what happens when DIY histories move into institutional spaces. James ultimately returns to DIY not as a credential or aesthetic category, but as the confidence to learn a form, find an audience, and make the work anyway.
This episode was recorded live with students from Jessica Schwartz’s UCLA Music Industry course, “DIY: Punk Organizing as Social Justice,” whose questions and contributions extend the conversation around access, cultural institutions, creative practice, and the relationships between mainstream and underground cultural spaces.
Editor’s note: This conversation was recorded in 2023, around the publication of Black Punk Now. James Spooner’s new memoir, It Starts with Anger, was published in August 2026 and extends many of the questions explored here around Black punk, belonging, DIY culture, Afro-Punk, and the relationship between underground movements and institutional power.
James Spooner is an award-winning graphic novelist, filmmaker, tattoo artist, and co-founder of the Afropunk Festival. He directed the landmark 2003 documentary Afro-Punk, is the author and illustrator of The High Desert, and co-edited Black Punk Now with Chris L. Terry. His newest book, It Starts with Anger, was published in August 2026.
Recorded November 2023.
Links + References:
James Spooner / Spooner’s No Fun
Credits:
Punkast is hosted and produced by Jessica Schwartz.
Conversation participant: Tequila Mockingbird.
This episode includes questions and contributions from students in the UCLA Music Industry course “DIY: Punk Organizing as Social Justice,” facilitated by Jessica Schwartz.
Editorial support: Melanie Hui – audio editing and audio-synced transcript.
Transcript:
Theme Music:
Lady Bits, \"Bitch-a-thon,\" Lady Bits.
Related:
Jessica Schwartz co-hosts the Punk Scholars Podcast.
Connect with Punkast:
Instagram: punkastucla
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