{"version":"1.0","type":"rich","provider_name":"Acast","provider_url":"https://acast.com","height":250,"width":700,"html":"<iframe src=\"https://embed.acast.com/$/5a481aca95dfbf9d13d4dc6f/63fa451c534f640011fbe656?\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"></iframe>","title":"673: Jim Oakes, part 2: Can We Go From Abolition to Anti-Pollution?","thumbnail_width":200,"thumbnail_height":200,"thumbnail_url":"https://open-images.acast.com/shows/5a481aca95dfbf9d13d4dc6f/1677365371747-bd36705b30c33c11a73e18dfc1a7cdc7.jpeg?height=200","description":"<p>My passion for the possibility of doing for pollution what abolitionists did to slavery: transform it from something normal, as if part of nature, to forever seen as wrong. The more I learn the difficulty of conceiving of the Thirteenth Amendment, banning slavery, let alone passing it, the more possible a parallel amendment on pollution seems.</p><p>Jim and I continue our conversation on abolition's history, mainly from the vantage point of his book <em>Freedom National</em>. I understand a lot more of the history of thirteen slave colonies becoming thirteen slave states then a nation of free and slave states, then with the Thirteenth Amendment, a free nation of thirty-six free states. Jim knows it backward and forward. He helps clarify that history for me and you.</p><p>Then we consider applying lessons from history to today. Jim also clarifies what a movement today would need.</p><p>I love finding history so relevant.</p><ul><li>Jim's book, <a href=\"https://wwnorton.com/books/Freedom-National/#!\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Freedom National</em></a></li></ul>","author_name":"Joshua Spodek: Author, Speaker, Professor"}