And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan

Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 years she's been a songwriter, and barely anyone — even people who know her — knew it.This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about being underestimated — as an actor who "couldn't" really be a musician, and as a woman the industry assumed didn't write her own songs — and about what it costs to keep making things purely because you love them.And The Writer Is... Zooey Deschanel of She & Him!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:Why she erased social media off her own devicesThe "industry plant" myth — why the industry "can't make anything happen" anymoreBeing told "you'll never make a record, no one will take you seriously" as an actorHer "secret agent" identityThe misogyny she goes to bat againstHer North Star she chasesAnd much more...Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Join our Patreon for special access, bonus conversations, demo playing opportunities, and guest hangs!patreon.com/andthewriterisFollow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our lead sponsor NMPA for making these conversations possible.NMPA is the National Music Publishers' Association. They fight for songwriters and they fight for this podcast, too.Chapters0:00 Intro1:00 Meet Zooey Deschanel1:51 Writing alone — and erasing social media to do it4:49 Why the "industry plant" is a myth6:37 "You'll never be taken seriously as a musician"7:25 Her secret identity as a songwriter11:15 How She & Him released with no name attached13:01 "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" — never a single, now #1 on TikTok15:35 The story behind writing "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today"17:24 Her dad, the records, and growing up musical22:44 Brian Wilson, Gershwin, and the Great American Songbook26:13 Five desert island albums28:21 Why "A Hard Day's Night" beats the White Album30:16 Teaching herself piano at six32:46 Writing her first song at ten38:42 "I identify as a songwriter, not an actor"42:15 Dropping out of Northwestern45:59 A word from our lead sponsor, NMPA49:23 Finding her voice in the studio — the mic chain51:56 Recording with Brian Wilson & the gifted mic55:57 Why she never sold out — turning in finished records67:03 The lonely sets where her first two records were written69:35 Almost Famous & Cameron Crowe72:50 "I'm allergic to selling myself"76:19 Nobody believes a woman writes her own songs79:00 Writing for other artists & how publishing splits really work82:07 Why she loves writing Christmas songs84:24 500 Days of Summer & music in film88:36 The songwriting trick: "What if I am her?"93:21 Dyslexia, reading scripts & why melody sticks94:56 Why she doesn't do more theater98:38 Staying clean through party-era Hollywood100:50 M. Ward — 20 years, never one fight109:57 Writing alone when everyone's afraid to111:43 The biggest misconception about her114:18 Finding your North StarCredits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad SaadWatch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on our show.

Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it.And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:• Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music• The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway• "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single• Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut• Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first• "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily• The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break• Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie• The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it• "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way"And much more...🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more).https://www.patreon.com/andthewriterisWatch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.Chapters0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up2:48 A childhood with no stability3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here"4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio9:22 Her first recording, at four years old10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified12:21 Songwriting as a diary14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans"23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 1734:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records64:10 Five movies that shape her sound65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music70:18 Rapid fire71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most77:19 A message to her parents78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this"79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episodeCredits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad Saad

Today's guest is a Grammy winner, a two-time Billboard #1 artist, and one of the defining pop voices of the last decade. But her real story isn't the anthems or the awards. It's the part that plays like a rollercoaster and teaches like a masterclass: how she almost quit, what going #1 actually felt like, and everything about the music business nobody explains until you've survived it.The press version skips the touring deficits, the depression at the top, and the moment in an Echo Park apartment when she nearly took a job at Smoothie King. The question underneath everything she says: once you stop chasing the metric and the moment — who do you become?And The Writer Is... Lizzo!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:• Why she wanted to quit music the day "Truth Hurts" went #1 — and the 2017 low point that was actually worse• The touring economics no one explains: how you gross $1M and still finish the year in the red• Why the indie grind that built her, in her view, no longer leads to the mainstream• "She stopped giving a fuck about what we wanted" — Beyoncé's self-titled as a blueprint for artistic autonomy• Why she only talks to people who buy her music — and what comment sections do to her nervous system• The bumper-sticker hook theory — why "Truth Hurts" works when it breaks every rule• Writing "About Damn Time": 83 versions of the chorus, and how the simplest line won• Robert Glasper's lesson: there's no such thing as a wrong note• Why good songs don't sound great at first — watching "Good as Hell" go from silly to gospel• "I make whatever the f*** I want" — and why arriving at that sentence took everything before itAnd much more...🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more).[www.patreon.com/andthewriteris](https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris)Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.Credits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad SaadPost-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Today's guest is a multi-Latin-Grammy-winning songwriter and producer with a wall of platinum records — and one of the few people in music willing to say the quiet part out loud. He came up as an actor and a rapper, moved to LA broke, stumbled into songwriting, and turned it into the kind of career most writers spend a lifetime chasing. He's also built one of the sharpest voices in the room as the host of his own show, Good Luck With Gino.This is one of the most honest conversations we've had about how the music business actually works in 2026 — not the clean version, the real one. Why roughly 75% of working writers now survive on K-pop. How the pitch song quietly died and took the professional songwriter down with it. Artists taking songwriting credit on songs they didn't write — and exactly how labels split the writers up to play them against each other and shave points. Gino lays out the one rule every songwriter needs before their next cut, when it's worth standing on business, and when you "roll over like a dog" because the record's too big to lose.And The Writer Is... Gino The Ghost!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:• How he came up — actor, rapper, broke in LA, then stumbled into songwriting• Treating every podcast episode like an album of singles• Why ~75% of working writers now live off K-pop• What pitch records used to be — Clive Davis, Barry Manilow & the lost art of outside songs• The death of the professional songwriter (and why talent-show winners get nothing now)• Artists taking credit for songs they didn't write — and how to combat it• The "$15K buy-me-out" story & when to stand on business vs. roll over• The split shakedown — how labels pit writers against each other, and the rule that beats it• Why generosity makes you more money than being a prickAnd much more...🔓 This is only part of the conversation. The full extended, exclusive interview is on our Patreon — where Gino goes even further:• The Bryan Cranston mindset that changed everything for him: "I don't need this role"• The craziest stories he's ever had in the studio (the fight, the NDA, the booth writer)• Drugs, weed, and vices — and why the "it makes me more creative" thing is a myth• His no-apologies case for AI in music — and why he calls the backlash performative• The synesthesia call-out nobody else will make• How you actually break in (it's not the biggest rooms)• Why songwriters deserve points and fees — and the fight to make it happenGet the full uncut episode and every extended conversation at www.patreon.com/andthewriteris.Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisFINAL CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (YouTube — public cut)0:00 "Have you had to learn to be fearless?" — actor, rapper, broke in LA0:39 Building the podcast — and why they resisted video for 200 episodes2:35 The clip era: treating every episode like an album of singles4:10 Music Monday–Friday, podcast at night — and learning Spanish for Latin music5:15 Sessions in 2026: "I only do stuff I'm having fun doing"5:42 Why ~75% of working writers now live off K-pop7:19 What pitch records used to be — Clive Davis, Barry Manilow & outside songs8:14 The death of the professional songwriter (and why talent-show winners get nothing)10:24 Why artists should collaborate with professional writers11:43 Artists taking credit for songs they didn't write — how to combat it12:06 "Buy me out" — the $15K publishing story & when to stand on business13:41 The split shakedown: how labels pit writers against each other14:46 The rule every songwriter needs: talk first, start a chain16:13 Why generosity beats being a prick once everyone's good17:11 The craziest studio stories… (continued on Patreon)

Today's guest is a rising star who's risen so fast he's not really rising anymore — he's just a star.From a bedroom in Luton playing $50 nylon-string covers and open mics playing for 4 people... Three years later: a billion streams, "Stargazing" on President Obama's summer playlist, two singles that took over pop radio before he'd ever made a debut album, and a debut album sourced from the notes he wrote in therapy that saved him.He's proof that sometimes all you really need is a guitar, a work ethic, and a Taco Bell-poisoned night in Malibu to write a song people argue about in twenty languages.And the writer is... Myles Smith!If you've ever wanted something so badly you didn't think to ask what it would cost when it arrived — this is the conversation.And The Writer Is... Myles Smith!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:• Why he scrubbed every song he made before 2023 — and what "I didn't exist before 2023" actually means• His advice for up and coming artists...• The end-of-Covid breakdown at 18 that almost ended things — and the therapy notes that became My Mess, My Heart, My Life.• Meeting Peter Fenn on the last day of a six-week US trip — and writing "My Home" in the first hour• The Taco Bell food-poisoning night in Malibu that produced "Stargazing"• The hidden cost of success on his relationships• "Hey mom, I want to retire you" — and what she said backAnd much more...Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.CHAPTERS0:00 Intro2:21 My Mess, My Heart, My Life.3:16 The pressure of being "right at the start of the journey"4:35 "If you take away the hits, you could see where I really am"4:54 "I wake up some days in a catastrophe"6:01 The five albums he wore out7:23 His mum, his absent dad, and a single-parent household8:22 Singing in church with his grandma11:41 First talent show: Fix You by Coldplay13:01 The $50 nylon-string guitar that started it14:02 Playing "Dream Girl" for his mum at 1015:23 Growing up Black in Luton and the Labrinth Electronic album that broke his brain open18:45 Open mics at 11 — his mum driving him to every one20:18 Why open mics built him in a way the algorithm can't21:43 "I was really lucky that I got to fail a thousand times"22:30 The first real gig — 100 cap, 90 friends and family, indie band Bear with a Three29:18 Covid, isolation, rock bottom30:44 Therapy — and the notes that became the album33:06 Trust issues, anxiety, the night at 18 he tried to "ctrl alt delete on life"35:12 What he'd say to 18-year-old him36:55 The videographer who pushed him to try TikTok37:25 "I'm not trying that shit" — and the Sweater Weather cover that changed everything40:24 How he paved his way onto an Amber Run tour with one recorded song43:40 NMPA mid-roll44:22 The day his career actually started: meeting Peter Fenn46:08 "Music with other people is supposed to be fun" — Peter's first lesson49:01 "My Home" — written in the first hour of meeting Peter54:48 After Stargazing: "stuck in the future"60:06 Brain scans, burnout, smiling through it all62:30 "Hey mom, I want to retire you" — and what she said63:31 The UK artists who don't love being famous — Ed Sheeran, James Bay, Niall Horan66:12 Are you happy?78:29 "I hated Niall Horan" — and why80:11 Rapid fire83:32 Meeting his wife with all this happening85:00 The album as the closing of the first chapter90:46 Pulling up the old voice memos92:02 The Taco Bell night that became "Stargazing"95:39 The biggest pinch-me moment of the last three years98:06 Ross and Joe tape notesWatch on Spotify. Spotify Premium users get no commercial breaks on our show.CREDITS BLOCKCredits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad SaadPost-Production VFX by Pratik Karki