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And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan
Ep. 253: Nessa Barrett on Fame, Music, and Finding Herself in Public
Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it.
And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett!
In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:
• Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music
• The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway
• "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single
• Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut
• Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first
• "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily
• The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break
• Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie
• The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it
• "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way"
And much more...
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A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.
Chapters
0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public
1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up
2:48 A childhood with no stability
3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here"
4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles
6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio
9:22 Her first recording, at four years old
10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified
12:21 Songwriting as a diary
14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias
17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon
18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack
20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans"
23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA
28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story
32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 17
34:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs
36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune
38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters
38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth
42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song
45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom
50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently
51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener
54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song
55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label
59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie
63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records
64:10 Five movies that shape her sound
65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her
68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music
70:18 Rapid fire
71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back
74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most
77:19 A message to her parents
78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this"
79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episode
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
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Ep. 259: Jessi Alexander on Writing "The Climb" The Week She Almost Quit... + What It Takes To Last as a Nashville Songwriter
01:27:44|Today's guest wrote "The Climb." She also wrote "I Drive Your Truck," "Mine Would Be You," "Don't Think Jesus," and "Ain't No Love in Oklahoma." But her real story isn't the hits. It's the ten years before the first one, the five years after it when the phone stopped ringing, and what she figured out in between about how to actually last in this business.From a dropped record deal and years as what she calls a washed-up artist nobody would write with, to Song of the Year, a Grammy nomination, and a run of hits she wrote while raising three kids under three. She carries three things at once that almost no writer figures out how to hold together: a working method she can actually teach, a conviction that this is a calling and not a job, and a refusal to write the safe version of anything.And The Writer Is... Jessi Alexander!Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.0:00 Intro0:48 Her favorite non-songwriting songwriter trick1:54 "How do you make unavailable country men emotional?"5:33 The five songs on her Hall of Fame plaque11:07 Pool halls and stick shifts: "that color is what I draw from"12:42 The artist deal that fizzled — "I wasn't the artist type"13:31 No man's land: "no one took me seriously, I was a washed-up artist"14:01 The insane story behind writing The Climb: "just another damn day"20:11 Bud Light, a guitar pull, and a British director22:07 Being told The Climb would change her life "Sir, that doesnt happen to people like me"28:08 Nashville still said No30:38 Getting men to sing: long notes and the falsetto flip31:44 "What part of their tool belt have they not used?"34:32 The professor who told her to quit school36:18 Her album, the mergers, and Redneck Woman40:27 New mom: "they'll just put someone else in my spot"45:30 Good mom or good at work — never both46:16 2015 to 2020: "the water just turned off"48:23 Advice for the writer whose phone stopped ringing50:24 The song that rang every bell57:21 Concept-first or melody-first: "I'm the director"61:16 Songwriters own it. Screenwriters sell it.64:16 Imposter syndrome and the Billy Strings answer65:24 What makes Morgan Wallen great69:46 "I don't like to not know where all the bodies are buried"71:43 I Drive Your Truck (Crazy story)74:37 Her granddad's truck in the driveway75:44 "Call in the third. Call in the fourth. Call in the 10th."76:46 No #1 party until they found him80:36 The truck-song traffic jam they were worried sick about85:38 "Keep your head down." Still the only answer.Credits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Ep. 258: Suki Waterhouse on Loveland, Motherhood, and Finding Her People
01:43:30|Today's guest is a songwriter four albums deep, with a song that's been picking up new listeners for nine years and Mick Fleetwood playing on her latest record. But her real story isn't any of that.From weekend stage camps in West London to opening Wembley for Taylor Swift five months after giving birth, she spent a decade releasing roughly one song a year into near silence. What kept her going wasn't a plan — it was a pair of collaborators who got nothing back for years and got up and made something every day anyway.This is an honest conversation about what a long stretch of nobody listening actually feels like, and what happens when the proof finally shows up on a timeline you didn't choose.And The Writer Is... Suki Waterhouse!Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.They've developed a Sounds plugin that allows creators to actually get paid for derivatively generated work from their art, and they have paid out $100M+ to artists already since inception. Chapters:0:00 Intro0:46 How's being a parent and doing music?1:18 "Being a parent is only hard for good parents"2:49 "The girl with the guitar" — how her daughter describes her job4:30 Test-driving album demos on a toddler in her "no" phase12:44 Somewhere Over the Rainbow — and losing to the girl who sang All Saints14:38 The voice teacher who told her she was too skinny to sing15:58 "I was angry. I had this huge fire in me."16:42 The friend group that turned on her: "fuck this school, fuck these people"26:45 "You walk through open doors" — model, actor, musician28:56 "Brutally," 2016, and ten years of making things nobody heard31:01 Advice to a young female artist: learn to produce, even basically32:56 "I went hunting for my fucking tribe. And I found them."35:54 Amy Winehouse at the pub, The Libertines, and a London scene that's gone38:12 Backstage at a Jake Bugg show — meeting Natalie and Jules at eighteen39:23 "They got zero back for years and years and years"42:45 Extreme ADHD, a giant sitar, and a fight over a song46:26 December 7th: flying to London for a song that didn't exist yet47:16 The pact: "if we're not writing something brilliant, we're not carrying it on"47:28 The worst audition of her life, in the dark48:09 A Wurlitzer, a Mellotron, and the song that opens the album1:01:39 "Good Looking" — top ten on TikTok, written nine years ago1:05:53 Covid, Daisy Jones, and deciding to just make the record1:06:32 Every label said no except Sub Pop1:08:40 "It's nothing about what happens in the first week"1:10:16 "Dangerous Woman" and a song that gains meaning over time1:11:38 Daisy Jones: "my name wasn't on the list and I was fucking pissed"1:16:24 "You're more envious of the check than the song"1:26:14 What makes a good song — Beck, Elliott Smith, and roughness1:29:26 Red Rocks with no ear monitors: "I was in insane debt"1:32:04 Opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley1:34:17 Hayley Williams: "this one's for Mr. Waterhouse"1:37:02 A baby in March, a record in September1:39:44 "When everyone goes a bit red — that's when you keep it in the song"1:40:35 What to play driving at night, heartbroken, walking through LondonCredits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad Saad
257. Ep. 257: Adam Lambert on Idol, Fronting Queen, and Opting Out of the Industry Game
01:37:51||Ep. 257Today's guest is one of the great voices of his generation — the theater kid who auditioned for American Idol with Michael Jackson, watched the judges' faces fall, and demanded a second song because he'd just quit his job and had no health insurance. But his real story isn't the voice. It's the game — the one Freddie Mercury wrote about, the one that picks your singles, writes your headlines, and decides who you are before you do.And The Writer Is... Adam Lambert!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:The AMA kiss that blew up a $500,000 single launch — "everyone was going, oh shit"Quitting Wicked — and losing his health insurance — to audition, then refusing the judges' noWhy Kara DioGuardi 'busted his balls all season'What Brian May says "Play the Game" was really aboutSigned before the finale even aired: why losing Idol never matteredand much more.Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. 0:00 Intro1:09 The album is out — why self-titled, "first name basis"2:35 Meeting Pete Nappi through a pandemic song still in the vault3:39 "Am I Okay" — written one week after the breakup6:02 Singles made him "crazy" — the label picks that flopped: "I told you so"7:04 Leaning into what fans expect vs. challenging them8:16 Proud of the flops, indifferent to some hits9:34 Theater kids: every album is a character, every record a world11:28 The dystopian cover — "I want it blasted into the future"13:55 Adam Lambert or Freddie Mercury? "I feel like it's me"15:35 Coffee with Freddie — what Brian says "Play the Game" was really about16:56 "The music industry is a big old game, isn't it?"17:43 A college-DJ dad, a Sly Stone mom, and a kid screaming through the house19:46 The Fiddler note where everybody went "oh, wow"21:03 San Diego to LA at 19 — math knocked him off the college path23:00 Weed, poetry, and GarageBand25:49 Wicked: six months, burnt out, and a new plan29:20 Inside the Idol machine — two camps, two agendas32:49 The Burning Man epiphany that vanquished the fear34:39 No job, no insurance, and judges who didn't get Rock With You35:11 "I didn't really ask" — the second song that changed everything36:22 Why Idol can't break artists anymore38:04 Honey water: the whiskey story behind Kara DioGuardi's grudge41:21 Justin Timberlake tells him to remake A Night at the Opera42:06 Losing the finale — already signed before it aired47:20 The blog photos drop: "Yeah, that's me. Get over it."51:53 The AMA kiss and the $500,000 single53:22 What Do You Want From Me — the P!nk demo56:00 Singing uncredited on Avicii's "Lay Me Down"59:03 "It takes a village — bring them with you"60:26 Max Martin: "When you get on stage, I don't have to worry"61:26 How Queen actually made the call62:07 Trespassing hits #1 — a first he didn't know he'd made62:48 The poster-child years: "the headline is that I'm gay, and no one's talking about the music"66:11 Trespassing, the "bipolar album" — his half vs. the label's half67:20 Two months with the Wolf Cousins — why his songs didn't make the cut70:05 The Ghost Town gamble — "you've got to do something drastic"72:44 Songs with no home — "throwing my ideas into space"76:03 Velvet dies to Covid, two weeks in76:52 A Telefunken, YouTube tutorials, and teaching himself Logic77:51 The secret musical: 20 songs written over Zoom82:45 Identity vs. brand — "the personality precedes the skill"83:35 Songwriters don't get paid for their time — the union conversation87:37 Giving his co-writers master points — "it's just classy, man"88:28 Where the stage presence actually comes from90:13 The hardest part of fame93:06 "I nitpick the negative" — showing the uglier side for the first time96:28 Is Ozempic killing LA nightlife?Credits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad Saad
Rewind: The Benny Blanco Episode [Patreon Exclusive]
30:36|Today's episode is a rewind to our conversation with Benny Blanco.To hear the rest of this episode, join our Patreon, where you'll find our full library of archived episodes with legends like Babyface, Shania Twain, Sabrina Carpenter, Benny Blanco, and many more. Members also get access to our monthly Writers Room on Zoom, where we play your demos and answer your biggest industry questions.We hope to see you there.Thank you for listening to And The Writer Is.And The Writer Is...is presented by the National Music Publishers' AssociationHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Ep. 256: Gavin Rossdale (Bush) | "Glycerine" & Surviving the '90s
01:41:20|Today's guest is the frontman of Bush, one of the defining voices of '90s alternative rock and the "feral," self-flagellating songwriter underneath them, who still claws through every blank page 30 years in and can't tell you how he does it.From a broken home at 12 to painting dentists' offices after he'd already made 16 Stone, Gavin carries three things simultaneously that most rock legends never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of a lifelong student who still writes out scales to get better, the conviction to bet on analog human perspective in the age of AI, and the contrarian refusal to romanticize any of it — "it's a perpetual UFC octagon."This is one of the more honest conversations about longevity, survival, and what it actually costs to keep creating after the era that made you has moved on — and buried some of the people who defined it. When the confidence and the insecurity are the same engine, who do you become?And The Writer Is... Gavin Rossdale!Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad Saad
And The Update Is...Fake Streams, Billion-Dollar Deals & Ed Sheeran's Biggest Career Move Yet
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