Share

cover art for Ep. 232: FINNEAS | The Long Game of a Music Career

And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan

Ep. 232: FINNEAS | The Long Game of a Music Career

Ep. 232

Today’s guest didn’t just enter the music industry — he grew up inside it. He isn’t just a Grammy-winning producer or a respected solo artist. He’s one of the rare creatives who’s built a career rooted in loyalty, advocacy, and taste — while learning in public and evolving in real time.


And The Writer Is… FINNEAS!


In this episode, he breaks down:

Growing up in the industry without losing your footing

The quiet flaw baked into today’s music industry — and the one trait he’s seen in every truly exceptional artist

Loyalty over leverage — and why relationships still matter

Advocating for artists when you already have a seat at the table

Learning as you go without pretending you have it all figured out

This one is grounded and essential for anyone trying to build something that actually lasts.


A special thank you to our sponsors... Our lead sponsor, NMPA aka the National Music Publisher's Association. Your support means the world to us!

And  @splice  the  best sample library on the market, period.


Chapters

0:00:00 Teaser

0:02:37 What FINNEAS Would Change About the Music Industr

0:07:40 “What Do You Do?” Identity & Being Multihyphenate

0:08:54 Why taste beats momentum

0:10:51 FINNEAS & Ashe

0:12:51 From Workaholism to Efficiency

0:14:17 Tools, Shortcuts & Speed in the Studio

0:16:13 Him and Billie and Their Creative Differences

0:20:11 Stage Fright, SNL & Performing Under Pressure

0:24:23 Writing Songs for Film vs Albums

0:27:49 Writing “What Was I Made For?

0:30:46 Writing Honest Lyrics in LA:

0:32:48 Parenting, Legacy & Keeping Ego Out of the House

0:36:42 Creativity and Parenting

0:38:47 Homeschooling, Childhood & Creative Freedom

0:41:46 Make your kids work with adults

0:44:42 When You're Inspired... Collaborate With Your Influences

0:46:30 Artists FINNEAS Would Love to Work With

0:48:46 How Not to Chase Trends: Why reference points should be old, weird, and far away

0:50:02 NMPA Ad

0:50:42 Splice Ad

0:51:30 Favorite Albums to Listen to Deeply

0:53:06 Writing with Billie, Honesty, Family & Creative Trust

0:55:55 Claudia, Love, Partnership & Sustaining Ambition

1:00:37 The 20% Rule

1:02:00 The 'Lowest Point of His Career' and His Personal Victory From It

1:04:57 Separating Your Work From Your Worth

1:06:00 The Barometer of Success For A Solo Artist

1:06:40 Doing The Apple TV Sound

1:08:14 Not Comparing His Success With Billie, New Album, Knowing When to Pivot

1:11:04 Repeating Success... Birds of a Feather, Taste as a Long-Term Advantage

1:15:00 Signing Writers

1:17:55 Why Some Artists Plateau

1:21:11 Publishing Deals, Reversion, and Leverage.. Bad Deals with Good People and Good Deals with Bad People

1:24:33 Avoiding burnout in a high-output career

1:28:01 Writing 'Lonely' for Justin Bieber with Benny Blanco

1:31:14 Aging in the Industry... Collaborating with Ashe

1:39:08 Big Songs On Deluxe Albums

1:42:50 Writing for Prompts and Film

1:45:01 What Still Excites Him About Music

1:43:41 Are You Happy?

1:52:37 Separating The Art From The Artist

1:51:58 Building something that lasts without losing yourself


Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad

Edit by Jad Saad

Post Production by Pratik Karki

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 237. Ep. 237: Philip Lawrence | How a $5 Bus Pass Created Bruno Mars

    01:58:45||Ep. 237
    Today's guest is a Grammy-winning songwriter, producer, and performer, best known as one-third of The Smeezingtons and a foundational creative force behind Bruno Mars’ career. He has co-written and helped shape some of the most influential pop songs of the last two decades, including Just the Way You Are, Billionaire, Locked Out of Heaven, When I Was Your Man, 24K Magic, Nothin’ on You, and many more...And The Writer Is... Bruno Mars!In this episode of And The Writer Is…, Philip Lawrence tells his story in full—for the first time- How a $5 bus pass led to Bruno Mars- The hidden cost of early success- Real stories behind pop’s biggest records- The pivot that made everything 'click'- A breakdown at the peak—and the call that brought him backand much more...A special thank you to our sponsors…Our lead Sponsor, NMPA— the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.Chapters:0:00 Intro4:00 “I Just Might” and Bruno Mars10:31 Childhood and Not Feeling Good Enough14:00 Early Career20:00 Leaving School and Auditioning for Disney26:00 The Disney Break Room: The Beginning of His Journey27:00 His First Session30:00 Meeting Steven Seagal34:00 Moving to LA37:09 Losing Everything He Had So Far39:00 Finding His Manager43:00 Finding His Way Through the Industry44:42 His Ego Death45:50 The Pivot That Really Started His Career46:50 Be Friends With All the Assistants47:20 NMPA and Splice48:45 How to Write for Radio49:30 Developing His Songwriting Ethos50:29 Spending His Last $5 to Meet Bruno Mars (Before He Was Bruno Mars)1:05:09 How Bruno Stayed on His Early Hook Placements1:07:28 The Story of Nothin’ on You1:09:20 Billionaire1:11:50 Just the Way You Are1:19:15 Talking to the Moon1:20:49 Ross’s CeeLo Story1:23:00 “F*** You” Was Not Supposed to Happen1:28:00 How Locked Out of Heaven Happened1:33:22 When I Was Your Man / Flowers (Miley Cyrus)1:36:50 Five Songs He Wishes He Wrote1:38:34 24K Magic1:40:36 His Breakdown at the Peak of Success1:48:45 The Comeback Phone Call With Bruno1:50:18 APT1:52:39 Advice for Songwriters + Rapid-Fire QuestionsHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadPost-Production VFX by Pratik Karki
  • 236. Ep. 236: John Ryan | The Playbook of a World-Class Songwriter

    01:31:04||Ep. 236
    Today's guest has quietly shaped the sound of a generation.He has written and produced some of the biggest songs of the last 15 years—from One Direction's "Story of My Life" to Niall Horan's "Slow Hands," Sabrina Carpenter's "Taste", Teddy Swims' "Lose Control," and Olivia Dean's "So Easy to Fall in Love."A true songwriter's songwriter, John Ryan doesn't just chase hits—he shapes careers, defines sounds, and knows exactly when inspiration is knocking.In this episode, John breaks down what it really takes to stay relevant across multiple eras, why authenticity always wins, and how he went from a Berklee kid living in his manager's parents' house to becoming one of the most trusted voices in pop music.We talk about:- The hardest years of his career- The real batting rate of the best songwriters- Meeting Sabrina Carpenter and Teddy Swims- Working with One Direction and losing Liam- Gems upon GEMS for up and coming musicians, songwriters, and producersand a special live performance of some of his biggest hits.A special thank you to our sponsors…Our lead Sponsor, NMPA— the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.Chapters:00:00 Intro: John Ryan02:30 How John Got Into the Music Industry06:30 Songs from Eighth Grade & Writing Early10:30 Writing Like a Kid Again (The Picasso Effect)13:00 Berklee, Pro Tools & Learning the Craft17:00 How Many Songs Actually Make It Out?19:30 Maroon 5’s “Cold”21:30 Niall Horan: From One Direction to Solo Artist24:15 The Lowest Point of His Career26:00 The Realization That Saved Him28:00 Meeting Teddy Swims & Sabrina Carpenter31:00 Social Media, Virality & “I Don’t Have That on My Phone”33:30 Writing “Heaven” with Niall Horan34:00 Sabrina Carpenter’s “Feather”36:00 Stop Chasing Numbers. Start Betting on People38:00 Co-Writing with Amy Allen41:56 How John Ryan Produces Songs44:50 Country Music & Expanding Taste47:20 Liam Payne51:03 Olivia Dean – “So Easy to Fall in Love”56:45 John Ryan’s Take on Collaboration58:50 Writing “Tears” with Sabrina Carpenter59:40 Managing Life, Energy & Relationships1:02:01 “Steal My Girl” & “Night Changes” Should’ve Been Bigger1:04:52 Choosing Great People Over “Sure Things”1:07:00 John Plays & Sings His Hits1:20:00 Why 10,000 Hours Isn’t Enough1:21:06 GEM: Ruthlessly A/B Your Music to Get BetterHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadEdited by Jad SaadPost-Production VFX by Pratik Karki
  • 235. Ep.235: David Foster | What It Takes to Last in the Music Business

    01:45:15||Ep. 235
    Today’s guest isn’t just a living legend.He’s one of the architects of modern music.As a songwriter and producer, he’s discovered artists, shaped careers, and defined entire eras.This one is required listening.A once-in-a-generation legendary hybrid of songwriting and production,And The Writer Is... David Foster!In this episode, David breaks down what actually makes music last, the cost of greatness, and what it really takes to survive and stay relevant in the music business over decades, not moments.Not to mention his best advice for people in the business right now...We talk songwriting vs. production, discovering artists like Céline Dion and Michael Bublé, working with legends like Whitney Houston and Paul McCartney, the mistakes artists make chasing hits, and why longevity matters more than hype.Oh, and the only artist who could pull him out of retirement...A special thank you to our sponsors…Our lead Sponsor, NMPA— the National Music Publishing Association.Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.Chapters:00:00 Mount Rushmore of Producers02:00 Canadians03:42 David Foster’s Parents05:23 Discovering Perfect Pitch07:03 Musical Roots and Learning Jazz07:40 Jazz Voicings Explained10:24 “Leave Songwriters Alone” – Publishing Talk11:20 Writing His First Songs12:21 Advice He’d Give His Younger Self17:00 David Foster’s Trick for Reading People17:58 Surviving a Plane Crash20:22 The Start of His Early Career22:00 Is “Africa” by Toto a Perfect Song?27:20 The Greatest Songwriters Ever30:25 Kanye West’s “Through the Wire” Sample Story32:27 Songwriting vs Sampling (Blurred Lines Case)34:21 His Documentary, Workflow, and Band Relationships38:53 How David Foster Writes Songs42:42 How Seven People Write One Song43:39 Presented by NMPA & Splice48:19 The Critical Mistake in “Uptown Funk”49:49 “Unforgettable” with Nat King Cole51:08 Paul McCartney55:17 Whitney Houston’s “I Will Always Love You”57:10 Top Five Singers He’s Worked With59:06 Discovering Céline Dion59:56 How David Foster Sees His Life1:05:13 What Makes a Song Great?1:09:40 The “Nashville No”1:11:51 The Arc: A Holistic Approach to Songwriting1:12:42 Discovering Michael Bublé1:15:29 Star vs Superstar1:16:39 Andrea Bocelli & Josh Groban1:19:04 The Cost of Greatness1:19:46 How to Make It in the Music Business1:24:11 Family Life (Katharine McPhee & Kids)1:25:50 “I Told Céline the Titanic Song Would Ruin Her Career”1:31:01 Songs He Wishes He Wrote1:31:39 Artists He Passed OnHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadPost production by Pratik Karki
  • 234. Ep. 234: Diplo | Branding Decides Who Wins

    01:13:34||Ep. 234
    And The Writer Is... Diplo! This episode isn’t about hits. It’s about how culture actually gets made. Taste, burnout, and building culture without permission. From growing up in Florida crate-digging scenes no one cared about, to turning underground instincts into global movements, Diplo breaks down the uncomfortable truth behind longevity in music: following your taste when everyone else wants safety. We get into: The real physical and mental toll of nonstop touring in a world that never shuts off The power of branding and how he did it (and why you have to, to) Breaking scenes before they’re acceptable Burning out, disappearing, and rebuilding without chasing relevance Why instinct beats public approval every single time And the reality of turning risk into influence and underground energy into global impact This episode is for anyone building anything. Thank you for listeningA special thank you to our sponsors… Our lead Sponsor, NMPA— the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Chapters 00:00 – Diplo Is Here 01:02 – Episode Intro 01:45 – AI, Sora, and the Future 03:18 – How Diplo Uses AI in Music 06:15 – Using Prompts to Produce 07:44 – How Diplo Got Into Music 10:32 – How Ross and Diplo Met 14:05 – Life as a World-Touring DJ 16:04 – Dr. Luke Signed Me to Steal My Drums 16:36 – Diplo’s Origin Story 17:13 – Riff Raff, Culture, and Being Hated 18:43 – Making “Where Are Ü Now” 20:04 – Creating Jack Ü with Skrillex 21:37 – Orlando DJ Gigs to Philadelphia 24:33 – First Session with Vybz Kartel 27:23 – Branding, the Internet, and Selling Mixtapes 35:01 – The Story of “Paper Planes” (M.I.A.) 36:44 – How to Find Success in Music 37:57 – NMPA + Splice (Sponsors) 39:25 – “Climax” and Finding His Strengths 43:54 – Why He Started Mad Decent 46:41 – Learning Music and the Birth of Major Lazer 49:30 – The Story of “Lean On” 53:04 – Diplo’s Cheat Code for Creating Fearlessly 54:06 – Country Music 55:28 – “Heartless” and Morgan Wallen 56:19 – Collaborator Rapid Fire 1:00:28 – Diplo’s Branding Advice 1:03:32 – Charli XCX 1:05:00 – How He Doesn’t Lose Himself on Tour 1:06:59 – Nothing Is Perfect. Everything Gets Better. 1:07:19 – Diplo’s Run Club 1:08:00 – Diplo’s Final Advice Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Post Production by Pratik Karki
  • 233. Ep. 233: Alex Warren | Surviving on Delusional Self-Belief

    01:33:38||Ep. 233
    And The Writer Is… Alex Warren.Alex joins the podcast to talk openly about resilience, finding his voice, and what it actually takes to turn pain into songs that connect.In this episode, he breaks down:Overcoming homelessness and instability while chasing musicEarning credibility in an industry that didn’t immediately take him seriouslyHow vulnerability became his songwriting superpowerWhat his writing process looks like when the emotions are real — not manufacturedThe difference between being seen and being heardAnd the single most powerful way to get your music heard against all odds..This ones about humble beginnings, trusting your voice when no one will listen, and learning how to write your way out of survival mode.A special thank you to our sponsors…Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers’ Association.Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
  • 231. Ep. 231: Seth MacFarlane | The Discipline and Craft Behind a Creative Legacy

    01:17:33||Ep. 231
    Today’s guest has carved out one of the most improbable creative legacies of his generation — commanding animation, comedy, film, and orchestral music with the same relentless discipline and near-obsessive craft. What began as a kid sketching characters in his bedroom grew into a fight to build Family Guy on his own terms… and eventually into Grammy-nominated big-band records that honor the very foundations of American music.And The Writer Is... Seth MacFarlane!On this episode, Seth breaks down the discipline, taste, and obsessive craft that shaped his creative life… and the standards he refuses to compromise, no matter the project. Dive deep into his roots, heroes, influences, and biggest challenges building his creative legacy.A special thank you to our sponsors...Our lead sponsor, NMPA, aka the National Music Publisher’s Association.Your support means the world to us!And @splice — the best sample library on the market, period.Chapter list:0:00:00 – Teaser0:01:06 – Welcome & Episode Intro0:03:12 – Seth’s Early Creative Roots: Drawing, Music & Comedy0:08:40 – Developing Discipline as a Young Artist0:12:55 – The First Breakthroughs in Animation0:16:33 – Fighting for Family Guy and Holding the Vision0:18:15 – The Influence of 80s TV Scores and John Williams0:21:48 – How Taste Shapes Every Creative Decision0:25:30 – The Craft Behind Writing Comedy That Lasts0:30:02 – Why Orchestration Matters So Deeply to Him0:34:44 – Recording His Sinatra Albums & The Pursuit of Precision0:38:55 – Balancing Film, TV & Music at a High Level0:43:22 – Obsession, Work Ethic & Sustaining a Long Creative Career0:45:45 – Diving into the Rat Pack Era and Vocal Legends0:47:14 – Collaboration, Standards & Protecting the Work0:52:33 – What He’s Learned About Longevity in Entertainment0:56:26 – The Role of Curiosity in Every Chapter of His Career1:00:08 – The Mindset Behind Creative Risk1:03:03 – His Advice for Multi-Hyphenate Creators1:05:23 – Seth’s Final Message to Artists1:07:19 – Closing Thoughts1:09:30 – Navigating Fame, Fan Encounters, and Meeting Icons Like John Williams & William Shatner1:15:45 – Final Appreciation for Preserving Classic MusicHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadWatercolor by Michael White
  • 230. Ep. 230: Cirkut | The Secrets of a Pop Super Producer

    01:49:03||Ep. 230
    Today’s guest is the producer behind some of the biggest songs of the last 15 years — from “Wrecking Ball,” “Timber,” and “Dark Horse” to early records with The Weeknd and Britney Spears.From teaching himself production on cracked software and vinyl turntables… to going on a run of genre-defining hits.And the writer is… Cirkut!In this episode, he opens up about his early grind, the moment Britney cut his beat, his first sessions in LA, working alongside Max Martin and Dr. Luke, and the mindset that helped him go from unknown kid with an MPC to one of the most important producers in modern pop.A special thank you to our sponsors...Our lead sponsor, NMPA aka the National Music Publisher's Association.Your support means the world to us!And @splice -- the best sample library on the market, period.00:00 — Intro: Who is Cirkut?00:04:37 — Early music influences: hip-hop, DJ culture00:05:49 — Discovering DJ gear & beat manipulation00:07:55 — First exposure to FruityLoops & early production00:10:24 — DJ’ing pep rallies with vinyl00:12:36 — Applying early skills later for Lady Gaga00:14:14 — Skipping audio classes to make beats00:16:46 — Early Drake encounter in Toronto00:18:40 — How the name “Cirkut” was born00:21:35 — How a CD of his beats got to Britney Spears00:22:10 — First big cut: Britney’s “Papi”00:23:01 — Discovering electronic music & the blog era00:23:49 — Learning from Masterkraft (the MySpace era)00:33:00 — Working with The Weeknd on “High For This”00:33:57 — Recognizing Abel’s early greatness00:35:06 — Moving to LA & hustling through the rat race00:38:49 — What finally got him out of the rat race00:39:33 — The call from Dr. Luke00:41:11 — The Flo Rida / Levels / Good Feeling near-miss00:42:37 — Losing a big cut overnight00:43:19 — When the hits start stacking: “Where Have You Been,” “Wrecking Ball,” “Timber”00:44:48 — The thing he brought that cut through the noise00:47:18 — What it’s like creating with Max Martin00:49:36 — Winning Producer of the Year (Junos)00:50:17 — When Cirkut realized he belonged at the top00:52:04 — Why his ego is different00:53:15 — His quiet superpower in the room00:55:45 — Ad: NMPA + ⁨@splice⁩  00:57:00 — The importance of speed00:59:00 — Secret sauce... Knowing his sounds and blind listening01:02:00 — Keeping production organic 01:03:57 — The Weeknd01:12:10 — Ross' funny Pitbull / Cirkut story01:13:03 — Cirkut's secret to success01:14:00 — 'Unholy' Sam Smith01:18:54 — Jung Kook, 'Seven' with Jon Bellion / Theron Thomas01:21:00 — Charli XCX01:22:00 — 'APT' and Bruno's 'Stank'01:30:56 — Lady Gaga + Watt01:42:30 — Production advice. Figure out what you're great atHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadWatercolor by Michael White
  • 229. Ep. 229: Zedd | Inside the Mind Behind a Decade of Anthems

    01:08:32||Ep. 229
    Today's guest went from making songs on a floppy-disk keyboard, sampling off a Kellogg’s cereal box DAW, and sending blind MySpace messages… to producing the some of the biggest crossover dance anthems of the last decade. And The Writer Is... Zedd!What makes this conversation special isn’t just the hits — it’s how brutally honest he is about the craft, the obsession, and the unexpected moments that built his career.A special thank you to our sponsors...Our lead sponsor, NMPA aka the National Music Publisher's Association. Your support means the world to us!And @splice -- the best sample library on the market, period.Chapters:0:00:00 – Teaser 0:01:06 – Welcome & Episode Intro 35:58 – Zedd on Never Thinking He’d Be Successful 25:41 – Growing Up Poor & Studying One Album a Month 18:01 – The Kellogg’s DAW That Started Everything 15:33 – Learning Music on a 16-Track Floppy-Disk Keyboard 30:44 – Why He Thought EDM Was a Joke at First 38:12 – The Skrillex MySpace Story That Changed His Life 31:25 – Finding His Sound Through Curiosity & Obsession 47:14 – The “Lightning Moment” Behind Clarity 59:34 – Being Wrong More Often Than Right 1:03:03 – Why Most Music Feels the Same Today 1:03:37 – Extraordinary vs. Average: What Listeners Actually Feel 1:00:08 – “All I’m Doing Is Chasing a Feeling” 56:26 – The Chaos Behind Making The Middle 1:00:47 – Realizing the Scale of His Own Success 28:23 – What It Takes to Stay Inspired 6:48 – The Creative Principles He Still Lives By 41:22 – The Fastest Way for Artists to Get Noticed 1:05:23 – Zedd’s Final Advice for Musicians 1:07:19 – Closing ThoughtsHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad SaadWatercolor by Michael White