Share

cover art for Ep. 225: Julia Michaels pt.2 | The Woman Who Changed Pop

And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan

Ep. 225: Julia Michaels pt.2 | The Woman Who Changed Pop

Ep. 225

Julia Michaels has quietly rewritten the emotional DNA of pop music.


From Selena Gomez to Justin Bieber to Sabrina Carpenter — her pen reshaped how vulnerability sounds on the radio.

In this episode, Julia sits down with Ross to unpack the craft behind her catalog: the psychology of honest writing, the architecture of a hit, and the years she spent changing pop from behind the glass.


They dive into the writing of hits, the evolution of her artistry, and what it means to sustain creative integrity in a fast-changing industry.


Chapters

0:00 Intro: The Woman Who Reshaped Pop Music

0:59 Welcome Back: Reflecting on 8 Years in the Industry

2:13 Music Industry Evolution: Then vs. Now

3:00 Adapting Songwriting to Social Media and Trends

4:32 Early Career Advice: Mental Health and Boundaries

6:03 Panic Attacks and Performance Anxiety

9:25 From Songwriter to Artist: Reluctance and Breakthrough

11:23 Influence on Songwriting: Changing Pop's Sound

15:06 Hit Runs, Burnout, and Creative Pauses

17:55 Writing for Disney's Wish: Behind the Scenes

19:42 Future Plans: Musicals, Retirement, and Balance

21:05 Artistry and Collaborations

23:00 Inside the Sabrina Carpenter Camp

29:01 Breaking Down Hits: Taste, Bed Chem, and Coincidence

30:50 Joining Tate McRae: From 17 to Global Hits

33:39 Favorite Producers: Ryan Tedder, Stargate, and More

36:04 Working with Ed Sheeran: Panic, Brotherhood, and Hits

39:30 Crafting Lose You To Love Me with Selena Gomez

43:24 Longtime Bond with Selena: Firsts and Milestones

45:50 Celebrating Wins in a Changing Industry

47:19 Songwriter Struggles: Pay, Radio, and Streaming

50:26 Fair Splits and Standing Up for Writers

55:09 Gender Challenges: Overworking Female Writers

1:00:06 Regimented Life: Balance and Boundaries

1:02:40 Running Her Own Label: Freedom and Control

1:04:15 Career Lows and Highs

1:06:10 Perfect Studio Moment: Working with Britney Spears

1:07:34 Reflections: Where She Thought She'd Be

1:08:45 Uncut Demos and Sacred Songs

1:11:27 Wrapping with Selena, Benny, and Unlikely Stars

1:15:55 Ego-Free Sessions and Lifelong Roots

1:18:22 Outro and Credits


NMPA fights for songwriters' rights, ensuring fair pay and protection.

Check them out at NMPA.org and follow them on social media at @NMPAorg


Splice is the industry’s top sample library—royalty-free for all. It empowers creators with its incredible library and ethical AI tools, supporting original artists every step of the way.

Download Splice today and follow them on social media at @splice


And The Writer Is...

Hosted by Ross Golan

Executive produced by Joe London and Jad Saad


Follow us on socials at @andthewriteris

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 257. Ep. 257: Adam Lambert on Idol, Fronting Queen, and Opting Out of the Industry Game

    01:37:51||Ep. 257
    Today's guest is one of the great voices of his generation — the theater kid who auditioned for American Idol with Michael Jackson, watched the judges' faces fall, and demanded a second song because he'd just quit his job and had no health insurance. But his real story isn't the voice. It's the game — the one Freddie Mercury wrote about, the one that picks your singles, writes your headlines, and decides who you are before you do.And The Writer Is... Adam Lambert!In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:The AMA kiss that blew up a $500,000 single launch — "everyone was going, oh shit"Quitting Wicked — and losing his health insurance — to audition, then refusing the judges' noWhy Kara DioGuardi 'busted his balls all season'What Brian May says "Play the Game" was really aboutSigned before the finale even aired: why losing Idol never matteredand much more.Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. 0:00 Intro1:09 The album is out — why self-titled, "first name basis"2:35 Meeting Pete Nappi through a pandemic song still in the vault3:39 "Am I Okay" — written one week after the breakup6:02 Singles made him "crazy" — the label picks that flopped: "I told you so"7:04 Leaning into what fans expect vs. challenging them8:16 Proud of the flops, indifferent to some hits9:34 Theater kids: every album is a character, every record a world11:28 The dystopian cover — "I want it blasted into the future"13:55 Adam Lambert or Freddie Mercury? "I feel like it's me"15:35 Coffee with Freddie — what Brian says "Play the Game" was really about16:56 "The music industry is a big old game, isn't it?"17:43 A college-DJ dad, a Sly Stone mom, and a kid screaming through the house19:46 The Fiddler note where everybody went "oh, wow"21:03 San Diego to LA at 19 — math knocked him off the college path23:00 Weed, poetry, and GarageBand25:49 Wicked: six months, burnt out, and a new plan29:20 Inside the Idol machine — two camps, two agendas32:49 The Burning Man epiphany that vanquished the fear34:39 No job, no insurance, and judges who didn't get Rock With You35:11 "I didn't really ask" — the second song that changed everything36:22 Why Idol can't break artists anymore38:04 Honey water: the whiskey story behind Kara DioGuardi's grudge41:21 Justin Timberlake tells him to remake A Night at the Opera42:06 Losing the finale — already signed before it aired47:20 The blog photos drop: "Yeah, that's me. Get over it."51:53 The AMA kiss and the $500,000 single53:22 What Do You Want From Me — the P!nk demo56:00 Singing uncredited on Avicii's "Lay Me Down"59:03 "It takes a village — bring them with you"60:26 Max Martin: "When you get on stage, I don't have to worry"61:26 How Queen actually made the call62:07 Trespassing hits #1 — a first he didn't know he'd made62:48 The poster-child years: "the headline is that I'm gay, and no one's talking about the music"66:11 Trespassing, the "bipolar album" — his half vs. the label's half67:20 Two months with the Wolf Cousins — why his songs didn't make the cut70:05 The Ghost Town gamble — "you've got to do something drastic"72:44 Songs with no home — "throwing my ideas into space"76:03 Velvet dies to Covid, two weeks in76:52 A Telefunken, YouTube tutorials, and teaching himself Logic77:51 The secret musical: 20 songs written over Zoom82:45 Identity vs. brand — "the personality precedes the skill"83:35 Songwriters don't get paid for their time — the union conversation87:37 Giving his co-writers master points — "it's just classy, man"88:28 Where the stage presence actually comes from90:13 The hardest part of fame93:06 "I nitpick the negative" — showing the uglier side for the first time96:28 Is Ozempic killing LA nightlife?Credits:Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad Saad
  • Rewind: The Benny Blanco Episode [Patreon Exclusive]

    30:36|
    Today's episode is a rewind to our conversation with Benny Blanco.To hear the rest of this episode, join our Patreon, where you'll find our full library of archived episodes with legends like Babyface, Shania Twain, Sabrina Carpenter, Benny Blanco, and many more. Members also get access to our monthly Writers Room on Zoom, where we play your demos and answer your biggest industry questions.We hope to see you there.Thank you for listening to And The Writer Is.And The Writer Is...is presented by the National Music Publishers' AssociationHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad Saad
  • Ep. 256: Gavin Rossdale (Bush) | "Glycerine" & Surviving the '90s

    01:41:20|
    Today's guest is the frontman of Bush, one of the defining voices of '90s alternative rock and the "feral," self-flagellating songwriter underneath them, who still claws through every blank page 30 years in and can't tell you how he does it.From a broken home at 12 to painting dentists' offices after he'd already made 16 Stone, Gavin carries three things simultaneously that most rock legends never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of a lifelong student who still writes out scales to get better, the conviction to bet on analog human perspective in the age of AI, and the contrarian refusal to romanticize any of it — "it's a perpetual UFC octagon."This is one of the more honest conversations about longevity, survival, and what it actually costs to keep creating after the era that made you has moved on — and buried some of the people who defined it. When the confidence and the insecurity are the same engine, who do you become?And The Writer Is... Gavin Rossdale!Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.Hosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London and Jad Saad
  • Ep. 255: Brittany Howard | How Alabama Shakes Went From a Garbage Truck to Playing with Prince

    01:10:53|
    Today's guest is Brittany Howard — four-time Grammy winner, the voice of Alabama Shakes, and one of the most singular artists of her generation. But her real story isn't the accolades or the sold-out rooms. It's a single-wide trailer, a junkyard full of animals, and a garbage truck — and a woman who never once chased any of it.From a Cotton Patch trailer park to Paisley Park, Brittany built a career by refusing to do it the way you're supposed to. She carries three things simultaneously that most artists never figure out how to hold at once: an obsessive craftsman's ear (she'll stab an amp with a screwdriver to find a tone), an unbudging authenticity (she showed up to the deal that changed her life hungover, in her pajamas, in a mail truck), and a total indifference to the machine (0% involvement in her own charts, streams, and licensing).This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about staying true to yourself in music.And The Writer Is... Alabama Shakes!Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.Follow us on socials: @andthewriterisA special thank you to our sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.Timestamps0:00 Intro2:09 Is hunting for tone a fool's errand?4:02 "Happy accidents" — taste vs. preference6:22 Stabbing an amp with a screwdriver for the perfect tone9:02 Born in a single-wide in Cotton Patch trailer park10:53 "Are we rich now?" — a junkyard, 96 cats, 26 dogs12:53 Picking up guitar out of necessity (she wanted to play bass)17:00 Recording songs at 12 on Audacity, alone in the woods18:45 The At the Drive-In shirt — meeting Zach19:33 Mom: "I didn't know you could sing" / "Me either"20:46 Her first song ever28:59 The label meeting: hungover, in pajamas, in a mail truck32:22 Writing "Hold On" in a garbage truck33:27 Making up the whole song live on stage at The Brick37:06 How a record deal did (and didn't) change how she lived44:01 "Do I have any money?" — buying her first house46:07 Meeting Shawn Everett & Blake Mills for Sound & Color52:51 Talking to Prince on the phone — and his list of rules54:17 Playing "Gimme All Your Love" with Prince — "did he change his mind?"56:49 How Alabama Shakes came back together59:15 Rapid fire + "Leave music to the people who love music"CreditsHosted by Ross GolanProduced by Joe London & Jad SaadEdited by Jad Saad